The Premier League thread

[pass the football]

I didn't say Hart was completely free of blame, but Nastasic is more at fault. He had time to kick it out, and that's what he should have done. He must have known Hart was coming out, rightly or wrongly, and heading it over him is the worst possible course of action.

And I don't care what Michael Owen says, what does he know about defending?

 

[- Doing The Lambert Walk]

For anyone who saw MOTD, the polo top that Fabio Borini is wearing will soon be ours.

Navy blue and electric yellow (basically fluorescent yellow).

It's being phased in, in place of some of the previous training gear, and coats etc will also be available.

I personally think it looks awful.

 

[TheSecondStain]

Poor guy. It's what playing at a stadium like St Marys can do to you. Joe Hart makes a howler on the biggest stage, Steve Davis scores, and he's never recovered.

I didn't say Hart was completely free of blame, but Nastasic is more at fault. He had time to kick it out, and that's what he should have done. He must have known Hart was coming out, rightly or wrongly, and heading it over him is the worst possible course of action.

And I don't care what Michael Owen says, what does he know about defending?

He probably heard the defensive coach shout to the goalkeeper...

NEVER, EVER COME RACING OUT OF YOUR GOAL WITHOUT BEING SURE YOUR DEFENDER KNOWS YOU ARE THERE..!

Apologies for shouting. Just recreating events as I see them

 

[TheSecondStain]

I see that the newspapers are now well and truly out with their predictions of Saints stars leaving SFC in droves. Luke Shaw will not only leave, but he will choose his club, it's that simple. Adam Lallana will be off as soon as January the 1st arrives. In fact, if all the players leave the club as predicted, we won't be able to put out an 11 with a full subs bench.

On the other hand, they'll all stay because there will be nowhere better to play football. Such is the unstabling side of the media. I think all the players need to learn Spanish and get David to speak for them. That would screw the media up.

 

[tomw24]

I didn't say Hart was completely free of blame, but Nastasic is more at fault. He had time to kick it out, and that's what he should have done. He must have known Hart was coming out, rightly or wrongly, and heading it over him is the worst possible course of action.

And I don't care what Michael Owen says, what does he know about defending?

How is Nastasic more at fault? It was a bouncing ball and it was at head height when he got to it so how could he have kicked it out? Hart may have called, but Nastasic wouldn't have heard him because of the crowd.

 

[pass the football]

How is Nastasic more at fault? It was a bouncing ball and it was at head height when he got to it so how could he have kicked it out? Hart may have called, but Nastasic wouldn't have heard him because of the crowd.

I don't know how many more times I have to explain this, but I'll try and give a comprehensive explanation with no room for misinterpretation. Maybe you can attempt to understand my position instead of just clicking 'dislike' because you don't agree.

As a goalkeeper you have to be the type who comes for everything, or nothing, or your defence will never be sure of what you're going to do. Hart is one who comes for everything. So even if it wasn't the best course of action on this occasion (and it could have been had Nastasic reacted better), Hart has a split second to decide what to do and he is nearly always going to come for balls like that. Most of the time he gets to them first.

Nastasic should know what Hart's style is. Given that Hart is quick off his line in almost every situation, heading it towards the goal in a looping trajectory is pretty much the worst thing Nastasic could have done. Torres was behind him, he could have used his body to shield the ball as it fell and he could have booted it into row Z. Or he could have left it for Hart to deal with, while holding off Torres. He had more time than you imply, and plenty of better options.

I can only imagine that Hart's shaky form has sown seeds of doubt in Nastasic's mind, because a defender who was confident in his goalkeeper would have left it, and a defender who is not confident in his goalkeeper would have smashed it out of play. The only situation in which his course of action was the right one is where you are confident your keeper will stay back. Where Hart is concerned, I don't know how you could be confident of that.

 

[rabbitspectrum]

Both goalie and defender committed cardinal sins. If a goalie comes out he has to get there or smash into someone, and if a defender backpasses particularly when he is unsure it should never be close to goal. A similar thing happened in the u18s game against liverpool where both the southampton goalie and cb made to deal with it but didn't. In which case both have to take sole responsibility as they have failed in the one fundamental of protecting the goal and that is keeping it as far away from danger as possible.

 

[tomw24]

I don't know how many more times I have to explain this, but I'll try and give a comprehensive explanation with no room for misinterpretation. Maybe you can attempt to understand my position instead of just clicking 'dislike' because you don't agree.

As a goalkeeper you have to be the type who comes for everything, or nothing, or your defence will never be sure of what you're going to do. Hart is one who comes for everything. So even if it wasn't the best course of action on this occasion (and it could have been had Nastasic reacted better), Hart has a split second to decide what to do and he is nearly always going to come for balls like that. Most of the time he gets to them first.

Nastasic should know what Hart's style is. Given that Hart is quick off his line in almost every situation, heading it towards the goal in a looping trajectory is pretty much the worst thing Nastasic could have done. Torres was behind him, he could have used his body to shield the ball as it fell and he could have booted it into row Z. Or he could have left it for Hart to deal with, while holding off Torres. He had more time than you imply, and plenty of better options.

I can only imagine that Hart's shaky form has sown seeds of doubt in Nastasic's mind, because a defender who was confident in his goalkeeper would have left it, and a defender who is not confident in his goalkeeper would have smashed it out of play. The only situation in which his course of action was the right one is where you are confident your keeper will stay back. Where Hart is concerned, I don't know how you could be confident of that.

Sorry but that's bullshit. As a goalkeeper, you have to make a judgement on each situation individually. You can't just come out for everything. If Hart had taken a second or 2 to take in the situation rather than charge out instantly he would have seen Nastasic dealing with the situation.

 

[fran-MLs little camera]

Hart shouldn't have come out (my pennorth).

 

[pass the football]

Sorry but that's bullshit. As a goalkeeper, you have to make a judgement on each situation individually. You can't just come out for everything. If Hart had taken a second or 2 to take in the situation rather than charge out instantly he would have seen Nastasic dealing with the situation.

Fine, replace "everything" with "everything they have a realistic chance of getting to", if you want to be that pedantic. It's definitely the case that successful goalkeepers are either the type who stay at home, or rush out. Case in point: De Gea used to do both and it caused mayhem amongst the defence.

Sorry but you're just not being realistic. Hart doesn't have a second or two to decide, if he waits a second or two before he acts he will concede ten goals in every match. You can pick one individual case like this, with the benefit of hindsight, and say "this is the best course of action" but in the context of a match you have to act on instinct.

 

[I Sorry I Ruined The Party]

Hart has more time and the best view to make a decision of anyone. When the ball is on the other end, his only job is to stand and be ready and watch what develops. He could see that long ball get played, where Torres was and where Naststic was, the trajectory of where the ball would land. It all happened right in front of him, and not really at a lightning pace either.

The other thing is, the more time Nastasic had to make a decision, the more stupid it is for Hart to come charging out. That implies that defender is in control, so why would you steal the ball from your own defender?

The thing is, if you took Nastasic completely out of the picture and it was just 1 v 1 with Hart, he STILL made the wrong decision to charge out as early as he did. He needed to time his charge so he would meet the ball and/or Torres right on the inside of the box where he has the massive advantage of being able to use his hands. And where he is less likely to draw a penalty for contact, because I think had he tried for that ball he would have smashed into Torres who you know would fall to the ground in a heap. And anytime you panic charge a ball outside your area and smash into an attacker you are likely to get a red card and a PK.

Every single keeper in the Premier League or probably any league needs to be able to make a better decision in that situation. The thing that would disturb me most about Hart on that play wasn't the mistake (because those happen). It was his reaction afterwards. He was angry that Nastasic hadn't heard him call the ball. But he should have been angry that he botched the decision in the first place. Because even if Nastasic had heard him, he should have ignored Hart and just cleared it. Plus, muttering about your crappy defense instead of talking to them directly is not a good way to win their trust.

 

[pass the football]

How would a penalty kick have been conceded?

Keepers charge outside the box all the time, if they get anything at all on the ball they very rarely get punished for colliding with the striker.

I've since read that it was very windy in the stadium and the ball held up a bit in the air, so it's certainly understandable that Hart misjudged the flight of it. Whatever the rights and wrongs of what Hart did though, my point is that as a defender, what is the safest play to make in that situation? I think that heading it towards the goal is a worse decision than anything Hart did.

 

[Saints by name, Saints by nature]

Just seen the goal, not sure why Hart had come that far out of his box, I think Nastasic looked at Hart, presuming that he had come out for the header back, then focuses on the ball to ensure he makes good contact.

On the plus side, our youth keeper Isted won't be feeling too bad today, as he was involved in a similar incident in their game against Liverpool.

Reading the Sunderland pages, their fans, and Poyet, seem to think that was the turning point of their season. I'm sure Fulham thought the same after their thrashing of Palace. What do others think, will Sunderland suddenly come good, or was it that they just beat a poor Newcastle?

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Just seen the goal, not sure why Hart had come that far out of his box, I think Nastasic looked at Hart, presuming that he had come out for the header back, then focuses on the ball to ensure he makes good contact.

On the plus side, our youth keeper Isted won't be feeling too bad today, as he was involved in a similar incident in their game against Liverpool.

Reading the Sunderland pages, their fans, and Poyet, seem to think that was the turning point of their season. I'm sure Fulham thought the same after their thrashing of Palace. What do others think, will Sunderland suddenly come good, or was it that they just beat a poor Newcastle?

I think both to an extent. They could barely get worse, and despite the fact that he forms part three in my triumvirate of managerial evil - Allardyce/Redknapp/Poyet - he's not a bad manager and will improve them. Will it be enough? Don't know. But Newcastle won't be far from the twitchy-bum places either, I don't think.

 

[pass the football]

Well, when Di Canio took over they beat Newcastle, and couldn't really beat anyone else. It's probably too early to say it's a turning point.

 

[Qwerty]

Reading the Sunderland pages, their fans, and Poyet, seem to think that was the turning point of their season. I'm sure Fulham thought the same after their thrashing of Palace. What do others think, will Sunderland suddenly come good, or was it that they just beat a poor Newcastle?

Time will tell (obvious but still), they're on the same number of points as we were after 9 games last season, and we ended up ok. But after that we won 8, drew 13, lost 8, so that's roughly what they need to do. We all know about their horrendous run of home games, they'll be well down there after January so it's gonna be a great escape job. I think they will run out of games.

 

[I Sorry I Ruined The Party]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of what Hart did though, my point is that as a defender, what is the safest play to make in that situation?

The safest play to make in that situation is to assume that your goal keeper is not stupid enough to come charging out recklessly, or that if he were that stupid he would be screaming for the ball. So if I don't hear anything, I'm going to play the back pass and I would consider that the safest and correct play. It's a routine situation, that happens probably at least once a game. There's no reason to think the keeper has suddenly gone mad.

Assuming that Nastasic heard or saw Hart at the last minute, there wasn't really much he could do. In fact, I'm not even totally sure that was an attempted backpass. Essentially Hart is charging his own man, which limits Nastasic's ability to play the ball. Pretty much the best he could do was what happened, head it over Hart's head wide of the goal and hope that Hart doesn't wipe him out and leave Torres unimpeded.

http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideo...-hartnastasic-mistake-to-score-a-late-winner/

 

[pass the football]

Sorry, really? The safest thing to do is to make an assumption about a teammate which is contrary to his normal behaviour? Because to me, the safest thing to do is pretty much anything other than what he actually did. Literally the only worse thing he could have done was step aside and let Torres run through (though even if he had done that, Hart probably would have got to the ball first).

There's simply no possible way Nastasic is unaware Hart is coming for the ball. He has time to let the ball drop and hit it out for a throw in. And even if he thinks he doesn't, he can head it to the side, allowing Hart to get back in position. Rule number one of defending is "if in doubt, kick it out", and it's the last minute of the game. What exactly is he trying to do? He's caught in two minds and frankly makes a mess of the situation.

 

[st_brendy]

Poor guy. It's what playing at a stadium like St Marys can do to you. Joe Hart makes a howler on the biggest stage, Steve Davis scores, and he's never recovered.

It really was the start www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2478231/Has-Joe-Hart-lives-Sportsmail-looks-biggest-2013-errors-Chelsea-calamity.html?ico=sport^headlines

 

[tomw24]

It really was the start www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2478231/Has-Joe-Hart-lives-Sportsmail-looks-biggest-2013-errors-Chelsea-calamity.html?ico=sport^headlines

"First of many: Steven Davis bundles home for Southampton after Hart spilled Rickie Lambert's speculative free-kick"

Oh dear. Typical Daily Fail.