The Power of Carr... is it a Myth?

I cant remember the last time a chief scout rose up through the ranks in record time. He has found decent players for us, Cabaye and his mate, and poss Janmat, but after that, nowt. Yet he is elevated onto the board and seems to be our Director of Football in all but name. I think the myth of Carr is running well ahead of the facts of Carr!!

 

Even I'd heard of Cabaye and Janmat before they signed for you lot. You can find someone who's already been found. I was developing both well before you signed them on football manager games, at least before my laptop became too outdated for the latest versions, but all your major signings this season gone are the virtually the same age tells me the were taken of a database with filters.

 

The issue is or wasn't Carr in my opinion!
The reason why we ended up with certain players was because they were the 5th/6th/7th and so far down his list! People near the top of the list we messed around with like Grenier, Lacazette, Aubymeng (sp) etc. The only reason we managed to get the top players we did get who were top of his list were that they had release clauses!

 

I think you have to judge a scout not only on his ability to find complete unknowns but his ability to recognise value for money. I think Carr has done very well in this respect and you can include the following signings in that category:
Cabaye, Debuchy, Perez, Tiote, Sissoko and probably Janmaat as well.
These have all been bought for significantly less than they have at one time been valued. A number of these have stagnated as well at various times in some cases due to injury, poor coaching or the general club situation (being played out of position, poorly motivated). I guess you could blame the scout for not identifying these inherent character weaknesses when he scouted them but I think that's a bit harsh.
I would argue that Sunderland have been less successful on the scouting front (can only think of Mignolet who was brought in and then sold on at a higher price over the last few years). I think both clubs need to be more successful in bringing through players from their academies (e.g. Jordan Henderson at Sunderland, Andy Carroll at Newcastle). Unfortunately, at least at Newcastle anyway, they are more likely to be used to raise money, than as a means of moving the club forward.

 

Carr deserves credit for Janmaat, Tiote, Debuchy and Cabaye. He obviously did a lot of the ground work over a period of time that goes into getting players. He also got them for good figures. Persuading Cabaye, Debuchy, Tiote and Janmaat that Newcastle was a good location is good work by Carr and Pardew, whether known or not known. Abeid for me is another great find by our network. As is Aarons who was released from Bristol City. Sissoko is another, a long period of expressing interest etc goes into these kind of transfers. Perez had great interest shown in him but again looks a bargain.

I just don't think he is as good as some suggest. He has just as many failures. Goufran, Obertan, De Jong, Anita, ****ing Riviere, Marveaux, Haidara etc.

I don't think he is a bad scout by any means, I just don't think he is some super scout. However I do admit we don't know what his remit is. Perhaps given the chance he'd attempt to get a better blend of talent from here with that of abroad. Perhaps the French thing is not all his doing but a concerted effort by the board to buy cheap tat.

 

Everyone of them apart from Perrez were well established players. Scouts don't negotiate prices either, you're crediting that to the wrong person.

Mate up until the last few years our scout was Pop Robson who's idea of scouting was nipping off to Ireland and taking in the odd game in Turkeys on his hollidays. Our scouting system had been shocking for ages. Things are changing, Our u21s are **** hot and play better football than the seniors. High tempo attacking pass and move football makes them much more entertaining than the first string. Watch for Duncan Watmore(U21 premier league player of the year) coming through early part of next season and the likes of Agnew and Honeyman making the bench regular, Our youth set up has been proper **** but in the last few years the area has received significant investment and signs are showing of it starting to come good. Needs to translate into first teamers or profit before the recent investment can be declared a success so a way to go yet.

 

So am I missing something here? If these were well known players why did we get them rather than some other PL club? We don't have a reputation as overpayers, either in transfer fees or salaries, so we must have done something right in scouting them - either recognising that they were worth more than we paying or getting the jump on the other clubs who might be interested.
We have been desperately poor at developing young players in the last 5years and I hope McLaren will change that. I know you are a keen fan of Whatmore from sneak peeks on your forum. Hopefully he will be given his chance in the new season. You seem to be linked with a number of loan players, which to me, is a backwards step, unless they have identified a short-term gap that needs filling, until one of the young un's comes through. I hope we learned our lesson with Remy - it was symptomatic of the short termism that I hope Ashley has now realised got the club nowhere.

 

Mate, Twente, Lille, Feyenoord and Toulouse aren't exactly unknown clubs. These players had been all over sky and 1000s have signed and developed them on FM. Why did they come to you, It's simple, the status of the Premier League and low wages on the continent make the premiership very attractive, none of them are world beaters and are never walking into a top 5 club unless they first establish themselves in the league.

We've only been linked with one loan. We need to utilise loans, until we've sorted the mess out. Anyone who thinks we're going to go out there and six six players outright are in fantasy land. We need three or four permanent signings of players who improve us. 5m on a rb who's never kicked a ball in the premiership is a risk and eats up funds, two million for Jenkinson will vastly improve the rb slot for us, we can find a permanent signing next summer, we won't have the funds to patch every hole and find the quality all on permanent deals. We've tried radical wholesale changes and it failed.

 

Correct. if it were the case, there are plenty better payers outside of the top 6. Whether that be Southampton, Palace, Everton, Villa, Sunderland, West Ham - well just about everyone really Some of these clubs offer London/south too.

No I don't think there is any doubt that Carr deserves his credit in persuading these players to come to Newcastle. As we know he scouted them long before they were as well known in the cases of Debuchy and Cabaye. He has a raft of contacts in France which goes back way before his time with us too, he is very friendly with the agents network etc. He used that to find out about clauses and we basically stole a march on others. I'd imagine we tied things up long before a fee was agreed and contract formally offered (probably through illegal approaches). Tiote and Janmaat are slightly different as I couldn't comment on his dutch contacts. Certainly though it has been another popular market for him. Tiote was pretty much little known when we got him unless you were a big Dutch league fan.

There were the rumours that Wenger had complained to his own staff about the Cabaye deal asking why they weren't aware of the situation - rumour nothing more though. The reality is any player that signs for a club, some credit has to go to the scouting network. Certainly in our case where we don't have the raft of backroom negotiators. We have essentially charged two people with sealing deals over the last 6 or 7 years. Carr and Llambias/Charnley. Just the way we operate which is slightly unusual but cost saving as ever!

I still think however his stinkers somewhat offset his good work - though parameters unknown.

 

I'd just add that a player can be known and reputable (which is FD's argument against Cabaye/Debuchy) and still not make it. For that reason I think Carr has a relatively high hit rate. Look at Spurs - how much chaff to they churn through? Soldado, Lamela, Yedlin to just throw three names out. Man U with Di Maria, Veron, Smalling, Jones, Taibi. QPR have an abysmal record, it's just not an easy skill. The likes of So'ton, Newcastle, Stoke really have to be on their scouting game else it all comes tumbling down.

 

It is a bit hard for us to judge Carr's responsibility for the failures. If he said that the players you mentioned were quality buys, then he was incorrect (though I'd leave Anita out of that list). If he said that they were speculative buys that could come good or not, well then fair dues. Haidara and Obertan are one fatal flaw each away from being very good players (they can't think and kick a football at the same time), De Jong is good when his lung doesn't collapse, Guffran was probably worth £1.5 million, Marveaux was Ben Arfa lite and Rivierre . . . has interesting hair.

 

He's a good scout like, hope that didn't get lost in translation. My point is that he's not as fantastic as some have made out to me and the uncovered gems weren't buried as deep as some have made out to me. The landlord of my local is the worst for it., this is the first season I've seen him take his black and white tinted glasses off. He cuts a very depressed figure at the moment, it's like he's come crashing down and given up.

 

Sitting in your pants staring at a computer screen and "developing youngsters" is more Adam Johnson, than Alex Ferguson...

 

Some clubs are openly affiliated to football manager. Worlds gone mad. And one is openly officiated to Adam Johnson

 

I see Carr as being a bit like Chris Boardman the cyclist.
He approach one of the games with a new style bike and literally won everything.
People looked on in envy.. then copied him in the end.
With Carr, he secured some of the big deals for us due to exploiting loopholes in contracts/release clauses etc.....
Others have clearly followed (yesterday the Hammers apparently met the buy out clause for that Jumanji lad).
Carr's 'powers' are now a bit more blunted although I expect he will still have a cracking contacts book.