I'm sorry, but this so called panacea for the modern game is driving me nuts and turning me off watching my favourite sport. The back 2 split, the full backs push up to and beyond half way and then the ball into a retreating midfielder, then back to the split CH's and we start all over again. Utter bilge to watch. I wouldn't mind so much if their was a point to it, but their isn't. Lesser sides just stay disciplined, only defend their half and all space is closed down. Last night a team the size of Bristol quite comfortably defended their own half. It took a surging 'old fashioned winger' and own goal to break the deadlock. After that they had to come into our half allowing space and we won comfortably. We'd have been their all night without scoring playing that awful possession game. Remember who we were playing. England last night were laboured and pedestrian. If players who are good enough for our national team can't play what bloody hope have we got with SOD's version. Barcelona are a 1 off and good to watch but the more I see some of our Prem sides attempt their own version just turns me off. Period. Sooner or later we're all going to realise the game's moved on again, it never stands still. The Bayern style is the new benchmark, and the way they press in their opponents half is something to behold. SOD, please wake up, do as I say or we're f*****d.
I don't watch the Prem as it's boring and can't be arsed to watch England any more after the perpetual pandering to the likes of Beckham. That was an even bigger turn off and it became permanent SOD needs to go and the sooner the better
Which awful possession game? The Bayern Munich style and that of their rivals Dortmund is based on possession. The pressing by Bayern Munich you admire is called counter pressing and it is linked to possession based football. Bayerns team is good enough to pass and move the ball in small triangles forward. If they lose it in an advanced position they instantly have numbers enough to press the ball in numbers e.g they will use five, six even seven players in midfield to swamp the opposition on the ball. Liverpool pressed their opponents half, it isn't new, but again Liverpool had players of quality. Eleven British players playing possession football, a style 75 - 84 that got lost in England. The Germans have refined and beaten the English with an Anglicised game.
What England did well was press the ball high up the pitch - something that Barca and Bayern do well I would rather watch us try to play football than hoof it long to Sam. I do agree that sometimes we lack width - Bryan and Wagstaff learning when to come inside and when to stay wide
I think you're all in agreement: so-called 'possession' football is nothing new. What was refreshing, for a while, for the while when they had players who could do it better than any other team, Barcelona were a joy to watch. They still are, but they are clearly not quite as good at it at the moment. Bayern (however much it hurts to say it), are presently playing 'possession' football with speed and panache. Redprintt, I'm with you on this (!!! christ, I need to lie down): watching inferior teams playing 'tika-taka' is tedious in the extreme. It always comes down to the same equation: if you have the best players playing the most effective style of football, then you win. England don't, and haven't had those kind of quality players for a long time. In my opinion.
I think whoever you are the importance of keeping the ball is vital: 1. The opposition can't score when we have the ball 2. When we have the ball our opponents will run themselves into the ground trying to get it back, and when they do get it they will be too tired to do anything with it 3. When we control the ball we can probe for openings by dragging people out of position (moving the ball quickly) 4. Keeping hold of the ball gives us a chance to rest
But we are not Bayern or Barca?? We have never ever been and I suspect their fans or players don't know **** about us. What we are is probably the biggest city never to have had a premiership team. These teams that get mentioned are good at what they do because of one thing and that's previous success so kids want to play for them excatly the way that Man U, Liverpool and the others produce kids. They are built on successful coaches that would also not dream of coaching for the likes of us. I can gurantee you one thing in football and that's if you are good enough player or coach you don't stay long at clubs like ours you get poached by the big teams. In this league it's not about playing slinky passing football because we might have all the possession in games but when it counts the opposing team just out muscle us in this division. This is why you see premiership teams struggle against lower leagues and crap like West Ham and Stoke because they do what they are supposed to do and that press and hurry them into mistakes. A bit like what we are finding at the moment. Regardless of whether you like the German model or the Spanish model, we have and probably never will in my lifetime become like them. The Spanish league to me they are like the Scottish league they have two excellent teams with the occasional other team chucked into the mix. But the likes of Barca and Real win in the end because they just take. Bayern and Dortmand are becoming the same because it's not much else coming out on top there now.
I will pick a part here, " Regardless of whether you like the German model or the Spanish model, we have and probably never will in my lifetime ...". I coach kids, some at six are two footed, some do Cruyff turns, McGeady Spins at five. There is huge change in coaching at lower levels as now. We as a nation are improving [slowly]. Last week I saw a Wilts and Bath kids team who were dazzling. I have never seen skill levels like that in my life time from a English professional team. They were kids, nurtured to play that way. We can change, we have to. The future is technique and possession, it has to be, it is naïve to think any other way and FIFA/EUFA and the rules of the game altering will make it so. Forget about Bayern, Dortmund think about the Bristol City way, players who play, a pathway based on technique. Adapt now, plan long term or fall further behind.
Yes but what I'm saying is these kids you are talking about are going to be that good, they will end up going to the bigger clubs. Either via some youth scheme or for peanuts when they start showing promise for us. It's a sad state but that's the problem. Look at last weekend Man U had that youngster who looks tidy and full of promise. They spotted him and probably took him of his local team. Which will always hinder our progress.
Joe Bryan and Bobby Reid have come through, there will be more, many more if BCFC as a club, and its fans want it to be so. BCFC need to position themselves as the regional club, the club of choice for the Wests talent. A style of football is central to this. If that is not the case junior clubs will point their better kids at Southampton for instance who train at Keynsham. Some parents will always have their heads turned, structure the club and its XI, providing real opportunity e.g Pathway properly not all will.
I agree on that, but it's a double ended sword. To do that you need some sort of success on the field for the first 11. Which is what the the miserable git RP is sort of getting at, will this possession based football be enough in league 3? The longer we stay here the harder it becomes to keep players and if we are a hotbed of new exciting talent then we basically become a Crewe? If we played hustle and bustle football in this league and try and muscle our way out at least then we can offer Championship football to the new kids who will change the way it's played? At the moment we are whether we like it or not being out muscled on the pitch, we take too much time trying to retain the ball we have forgotten how to counter attack. Fergies Fledglings was the master of that soak up pressure and bang they hit you. Arsenal play the lovely easy on the eye football but maybe we might see the benefits of years without winning anything come this year. But we was never in that position a big fan base, shed loads of money (paying their stadium cost first before the team was unheard off before). I agree it will be great when we start seeing the seeds start to root. But we must have one of the worse fans going for patience. Just watching Sky, Megson, Dowie and Jewel chatting about Weir getting sacked saying they've all been there before told by the board to use the youth and reduce the wage bill, but then the board tell the fans they want promotion, thinking that's what they want to hear. When if the board just come out and say what they told the manager perhaps the fans then become more understanding.
'1. The opposition can't score when we have the ball' - Are you sure ? Clifton - After I finished I coached kids teams for 7 years and seen plenty of young talent and most went to Southampton. None of these talented local kids you see will sign for a club in the Conference. By all means introduce a new structure in the club but not at the expense of relegation. It's a balance, and the most pressing priority is we have to stay in L1 this season. Nobody will persuade me that SOD's possession game will achieve this aim.
Teams do play their way out of this division. Peterbrough in the past were hardly giants. City's resources to sign players has outstretched that of Crewe, FFP or not. City's academy will have a status beyond any other West country team. Get the club on an even keel and its illogical to aspire to be no better than Crewe. The club is set up for Championship level ... the Head coach states that, I would agree. Division three is not a consideration. The BCFC team I saw at Port Vale looked as good as any I have seen this season.
Cliftonville, you keep banging on about the future and the children of it, but there won't be this bright future if the main focus first and foremost, isn't rectified. That main focus, is the first 11 winning games. That comes from good management, which is employed by smart, football savvy directors. So far we have none of those things. We could have 15 Ronaldo's breaking through into the under 13's youth development, but they aren't going to hang around at a League 2 club, or if they do, be utilized in a capacity that allows them to develop to their full potential, as we simply don't have the right mix or blend of everything else needed. You have to have a stable 'NOW' to grow a sustainable and successful future. We just don't have that. I fully agree with Redprint 100%, and have said on this forum dozens of times the exact same things. Time in football is a luxury, and it does not stand still. SOD has less and less time to get this right, and has got off to a very poor start. In terms of England as a nation, we need to develop our own 'Brand' of football, that is new, and admired. Not copy what Spain, Germany etc have been doing for the last 15 years, as that model is now old or growing older.
Morning Clifton 'I will pick a part here' - ie 'Which awful possession game?' The one I watch at Ashton Gate under SOD's supervision. The system is better suited for away matches. At home,unless we're able to get an early goal and they have to 'come out', then we're f*****d. A blind man can see it, so how do players feel ? Said it before - Dressing room unrest is next.
The City I watched v Port Vale! Maintain that standard [error not connected to tactics] the club will be fine this season. That is a platform, younger players will have more experience ... I expect little NOW or YESTERDAY. I do not have tens of millions to remove the directors and owner. If I did I would use a similar model to that BCFC are attempting to. Where have I said we should copy entirely Spain or Germanys a style of football? I make reference to coaching standards this forum. England is improving but we do not have national standards. The Spanish do for kids football. England in comparison often will have no coaches. English football is no longer admired it is laughed at due to its utterly backward mentality. The Italians and Germans do physical better. Most are more technical. Others are more organised. This brand of football you don not describe may have to include players who fly. England are a second rate nation now in football terms and will remain so till they take on the higher standards of the Europeans.
'[error not connected to tactics]' It was entirely due to SOD's 'tactics' ie Let's keep playing the ball holding possession. Instead of what a CH should do in the last minute - ie send it as far away from goal as possible. Against Colchester 2nd half was another '[error not connected to tactics]'. Williams and Flint by f*****g about across the back let in their striker only for a last ditch tackle by Williams to save their collective error. Clifton, you need players who can play a system. Round pegs in etc etc. Ours patently can't.
No biffing it up the pitch and it comes back. The initial error was not the centre halves. It is a team game. The team had options. Options forward to feet = Very good. Option sideways to feet = good. Option backwards = Ok. Next time make a simple pass, just that.
