Off Topic The Politics Thread
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I understand now.
I don't hate Europe, i love it. I spent 3 of the last 12 months in France. I have both French and Irish family. I have nothing against people from other countries or race. I get on with many people from all over the world. Only 30 minutes ago i received a text from a friend of mine In Germany who along with his fellow German friends was about to go out and support the national team. I said i wish i was out there with him having a beer. I don't have a problem with Europe or its people. What i do have a problem with is the idiots that run the EU. The sooner Juncker goes the sooner we will have better links with our friend across the Channel.
Don't agree. Politics has been surrounded by cynicism and malaise recently. Now every family is talking about it, it dominates conversation in every pub and bar. People are finding out and enthused, cutting through previous apathy. If there had been a referendum on the second Iraq war, would it have happened?
If there had been a referendum in 1939 when Chamberlain came home claiming peace for our time, and Churchill stood alone, what would have happened Goldie ?.......it cuts both ways.
Ok. peace rules againI understand now.
I don't hate Europe, i love it. I spent 3 of the last 12 months in France. I have both French and Irish family. I have nothing against people from other countries or race. I get on with many people from all over the world. Only 30 minutes ago i received a text from a friend of mine In Germany who along with his fellow German friends was about to go out and support the national team. I said i wish i was out there with him having a beer. I don't have a problem with Europe or its people. What i do have a problem with is the idiots that run the EU. The sooner Juncker goes the sooner we will have better links with our friend across the Channel.
Just before the referendum there was an attempt to enfranchise ex pats, because they are affected so much by the result. The government plans to change this but did not do it in time for the referendum......so, over half of all British people living abroad (over 3 million) had no voting rights. This is the issue which could be challenged.
It was 1938, Cologne, and I don't think even Churchill wanted to go to war at that stage
I didn't say that there should be another referendum Goldie, now did I? Farage did say that's what should happen of course.
It would be entirely democratic constitutionally for Parliament to say 'this is a crazy idea - let's just ignore it'. That's not going to happen of course, but I hope and expect that the final outcome will involve our staying in the Single Market.
Am I right that it's people who have lived abroad continuously for 15 years or more who are excluded Cologne? Seems fair enough to me.Ok. peace rules again
Ignoring a valid referendum result is worse than seeking another referendum, Strolls. It would say to the electorate there was never any point in having the debate and referendum in the first place. Even the Scottish left wing lawyer Helena Kennedy admits it would lead to a constitutional crisis. It would also result in a massive surge to UKIP, and the far right parties.
Again, I'm not advocating that the referendum result should be ignored, Goldie - I'm just pointing out that it could be. The UK has voted to leave the EU, but no one seems to have any idea what should happen next. As someone tweeted last week, 'Even Baldrick had a ****ing plan'
I'd guess the turnout would have been low, old people and northerners would have out-voted London liberals and we'd have had a load of protests in the aftermath and people saying it still shouldn't happen.
I agree with the point that it's good people are talking about politics more than usual.
At present, we have the status quo. Life goes on without any particularly adverse consequences. The UK gets its ducks in a row, finds a new prime minister, appoints a senior team of negotiators for Brexit and hopefully Labour will reorganise to form an effective opposition. Then we trigger Article 50 at the end of the year, and the negotiations and the brinkmanship begin
It's like Game of Thrones without the shagging and I understand what people are talking about in the office.
Perhaps - we'll never know
If John Major and Edwina Currie are drafted into the negotiation team, we may yet get the shagging
Did we vote to leave the Single Market or stay in it would you say? Is there a mandate for either position? If we manage to stay in it, and Leave voters realise that we still can't control EU immigration, should they be able to demand another referendum?
Controlling immigration - the numbers coming in due to freedom of movement - was a critical part of the Leave campaign and the vote, so sacrificing control to stay in the single market will not be acceptable, and there should be no further referendum because it has already been voted on.
Simple stay v go. Leave voters, including myself, could only guess what they were actually voting for. Anyone who voted "because immigration" or the even better "because Muslims" frankly deserves to end up pissed off.
You don't need it to be expressed on the ballot paper. If a majority of the electorate vote to come out of the EU, it is implied they have voted against the cornerstones of the EU, one of which is uncontrolled freedom of movement of people