Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

Both the Welsh government and Cornwall County Council, which judging from their political make up are both Remain in sentiment although both regions voted strongly Brexit, are demanding guarantees that their EU funding will be maintained. Irresponsible politics I think, no one can offer them these guarantees, and it seems won't be able to for some time, stop stirring things up. There will be many calls on the Brexit 'dividend', which won't be as big as trailed. And unless something dramatic and unexpected happens the current budgets are in place for at least a couple of years. Let's do the big picture before we tackle the minutiae.

 

[Frome-Ranger]

Convenient.

The leave banner was flown over LONDON you fool. It could be seen for miles. How is that a DIRECT attempt at using Jo Coxs' murder as electioneering? More inflammatory rubbish.

Clearly engaging with you is a mistake you've personally insulted me three times now, I haven't and won't reciprocate but it doesn't mean I have to take it. We disagree, I get it, doesn't make you right though.

 

[Stroller]

Convenient.

The leave banner was flown over LONDON you fool. It could be seen for miles. How is that a DIRECT attempt at using Jo Coxs' murder as electioneering? More inflammatory rubbish.

I decided earlier on today that, having been described as a whinging sore loser who should 'suck it up', I would not post any more on this subject. Your obnoxious, gloating, sneering posts are making this difficult for me though, Shefford.

 

[QPR Oslo]

Look I'm a big boy now, and no Mr Shefford I'm not stupid, I know we've just got to get on with it but two days after the result I'm certainly not going to apologise for still feeling a bit raw about it. I can only speak from my own personal experience and the leave voters I've spoken to either didn't consider their decision properly or genuinely didn't understand what they were voting for, I'm not saying that is reflected across all leave voters because clearly it isn't but it is what I have experienced. As for the deceitful campaign, well it was paraded around on the side of the big red fun bus and was a fundamental part of the leave strategy to win votes, which it did. So for Farage and co to be rapidly distancing themselves from those words almost the second the result was in I think is disgraceful as they will have played a major part in the result. Obviously I voted remain so that colours my stance somewhat and it is disingenuous of me to suggest (although I don't think I did) that there wasn't also stupidity and bending of the truth on the remain side of the fence. But when a lie is one of the main selling points of a campaign and an intentionally emotive one I find it hard to accept. Democracy isn't necessarily at fault but I do strongly believe the undecided and the less engaged have been maliciously preyed upon.For the record I thought the remain campaign was poor but I still think remain was the right choice for me.

I'm with you on this Froome. I also thought the Remain campaign a bit week, but mainly honest, compared to Leave who were stronger but spouted a lot of venom and next to nothing on where a vote to Leave would take us. The so called scare mongering from Remain were mainly good predictions of what is likely to happen. Unfortunately most of this was delivered by Cameron and his chums who seems to have become widely unpopular.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Stanno doesn't need me to butter him up (although that may well be a fantasy of his) but I have to say that it's a shame that not all Remainers have responded in the same way as he has, i.e. in a thoughtful and intelligent way, having accepted the outcome of the referendum, but asking perfectly fairly what the plan is going forward.

 

[Hoops Eternal]

Nicola Sturgeon suggesting that she could veto Brexit, stupid bitch, Scotland are a part of the UK whether she likes it or not and the UK voted to leave. So deal with it!

 

[Frome-Ranger]

We only had the result two days ago and given the magnitude of the question we were asked is it not understandable for people to take a while to fully accept it. Stan is a great poster on this subject and perhaps some of us lack his eloquence but I don't see myself as unintelligent or any less thoughtful because the outcome still sticks in my craw a bit. We'll accept it eventually, we have to in order to move forward but just as the victors are still gloating (not on here I might add) so the losers have just as much right to be still be a bit sore. I hope that the decision of the 52% does lead to something positive but no one has so far given anything on where we go from here.

 

[TheBigDipper]

The referendum was about continued membership of the EU, not about the repatriation of EU immigrants and certainly not about the repatriation of non-EU (I'm talking people who have dark skins here) people. Especially not those who are British-born.

This referendum and the result seems to have made it more legitimate for people who clearly are racists to feel more confident about sharing their views in public over the last couple of days.

I abhor that and hope all R's fans feel the same way.

 

[sb_73]

Stanno doesn't need me to butter him up (although that may well be a fantasy of his) but I have to say that it's a shame that not all Remainers have responded in the same way as he has, i.e. is a thoughtful and intelligent way, having accepted the outcome of the referendum, but asking perfectly fairly what the plan is going forward.

Cheers Ubes, unsalted butter please, that lovely French brand, President.

In truth I am both numb and drained, definitely in some kind of shock, and I'm using the forum to keep myself calm and try to think things through. Forcing myself not to respond in kind to some of the stuff Shefford has been posting is zen training of the highest order, believe me. I'd love it if we could say 'oops, sorry, only joking', but I believe agitating for this will only make things worse. This is a truly unique moment, and not, from my perspective, an especially pleasant one. Many factors are at play but even Remainers can't deny that the EU has at least partly brought this on itself through its own manifest failings, and the Remain campaign was a total disaster.

I'll keep on asking for plans but I don't honestly expect to get any for a bit. It's obvious that we have a bunch of Tories busily looking inwards, plotting their way to 10 Downing Street rather than thinking about the country. But I'm also acutely aware that I am relatively well off (not compared to a Championship footballer of course). I may take a hit in the aftermath, but I'll still be relatively well off, and am fortunate to have a level of control over my own future. Many of both the leave and stay voters are much more vulnerable to the contents of the Pandora's Box that we have opened up, and they deserve clarity and as much protection as possible in the circumstances.

Of course, in the privacy of my sitting room, staring at the football on the telly and tapping away at the iPad, appearing statesmanlike and reasonable, I am cursing the cretins who left us here. Oops.

 

[TootingExcess]

Hopefully we'll all smile at this little beauty

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[rangercol]

The referendum was about continued membership of the EU, not about the repatriation of EU immigrants and certainly not about the repatriation of non-EU (I'm talking people who have dark skins here) people. Especially not those who are British-born.

This referendum and the result seems to have made it more legitimate for people who clearly are racists to feel more confident about sharing their views in public over the last couple of days.

I abhor that and hope all R's fans feel the same way.

Absolutely. Who on the leave side has been saying these things please?

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Nicola Sturgeon suggesting that she could veto Brexit, stupid bitch, Scotland are a part of the UK whether she likes it or not and the UK voted to leave. So deal with it!

That's two democratic referenda that have yielded results not to her liking in the space of a few years. Yet another example of somebody that wants to keep asking the same question until the electorate get it right, then never ask the question again.

 

[TheBigDipper]

Absolutely. Who on the leave side has been saying these things please?

My post isn't about about "Leavers" saying these things as part of being a "Leaver". I'm not refighting the referendum result. That's done and we're leaving. These people could have voted "Remain" or not voted at all for all I know. It's about racists being more public about their racism because they think the result has legitimised them to express their views. It needs to be stopped and our "leaders" should make it clear it's not on.

 

[ELLERS]

That's two democratic referenda that have yielded results not to her liking in the space of a few years. Yet another example of somebody that wants to keep asking the same question until the electorate get it right, then never ask the question again.

I would let here have a referendum now saying if you lose can you and Salmond fall on your swords and FOFF

 

[Hoops Eternal]

It seems that those that voted to remain are branding everyone that opted to leave as a racist in order to apportion blame for the result. That may well have been the case with a minority but I'm sure the vast majority had other more rational reasons.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

It seems that those that voted to remain are branding everyone that opted to leave as a racist in order to apportion blame for the result. That may well have been the case with a minority but I'm sure the vast majority had other more rational reasons.

I'd hazard a guess that more people voted Remain for non-sensical reasons than Leave.

 

[loomo]

What I find strange is some people voted out as a protest vote against the politicians of the day and then put their trust into another lot. As an employer of a number of people I have been enraged over the years at how 50 plus employment laws have been brought in by Europe and all they did was make employing people a more dangerous risk for me. However, I voted remain on economic issues and put more faith in what the economists were saying rather than any politician. I believe this will set us back economically for several years and jobs will be lost short term. We will recover and I hope better. The European Union is a flawed body but we are inextricably linked to it economically.
One major ironic thing was when Boris ( think it was him) said we will do car deals with Germany as Merkel won't want to put tariffs on that as we are their biggest importer. But they were arguing to leave as no individual countries have that power as you trade with the Union itself, so how can Merkel have a say in the tariffs.
What's done is done and even on here people are getting personal rather than respecting each other's views. We need political leadership and quick to help reduce the financial impact

 

[Hoops Eternal]

Loomo, I understand your reasons for voting to remain. I feel strongly that the remain campaign shot themselves in the foot by focusing on the negatives of leaving rather than the positives of remaining.
I voted to leave not for myself, as I'm a somewhat long in the tooth, but for my children and in turn their children. I believe Britain will be far more prosperous outside the EU, we will still trade with Europe because they are not going suddenly stop wanting to buy our products, in fact since the referendum it will be cheaper for them to import from us.
It is going to be a rocky road for a while but it will settle down and our economy will prosper.

 

[rangercol]

My post isn't about about "Leavers" saying these things as part of being a "Leaver". I'm not refighting the referendum result. That's done and we're leaving. These people could have voted "Remain" or not voted at all for all I know. It's about racists being more public about their racism because they think the result has legitimised them to express their views. It needs to be stopped and our "leaders" should make it clear it's not on.

Who are the people saying these things?

 

[loomo]

Loomo, I understand your reasons for voting to remain. I feel strongly that the remain campaign shot themselves in the foot by focusing on the negatives of leaving rather than the positives of remaining.
I voted to leave not for myself, as I'm a somewhat long in the tooth, but for my children and in turn their children. I believe Britain will be far more prosperous outside the EU, we will still trade with Europe because they are not going suddenly stop wanting to buy our products, in fact since the referendum it will be cheaper for them to import from us.
It is going to be a rocky road for a while but it will settle down and our economy will prosper.

Sorry hoops but if it's cheaper due to weaker pound that's not good. In a way this could mean the break up f the union which may actually be better bizarrely. I just really feel that the economy is not strong enough to exit yet.