A bit dramatic. Cameron will go, someone else will come in. It's not a rudderless ship.
Off Topic The Politics Thread
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A bit dramatic. Cameron will go, someone else will come in. It's not a rudderless ship.
Anyway my QPR membership card for 2016/17 has just arrived through the letter box, everything's ok now.
Agree - I think the IN campaign need to get over it, 17 MILLION people said OUT, that's democracy! In regards to the elderly and the ageism of the losing vote, shall we ban terminally ill people from voting as well, or anyone with cancer, where shall we go with this. Why not instead look towards the 13 Million people that did not get off their lazy arses that would be a more positive objective.
Although I voted remain, I'm certain that there shouldn't be a second referendum. It'd basically be a special vote for those too lazy to vote or switch voters who are clearly too stupid to know what they're voting for. The thoughful adsteiners and those who actually made up their mind get no benefit.
I do think the slating of demographics needs to stop. It's as easy to say the older voters are wiser as it is to say they're selfish. Likewise, are the young pampered and impetous or idealistic and passionate?
This is a vote with repercussions the like of which I've never known and opinions would be high after a close vote either way and debate would run for years I suspect.
Remain voters have every right to express cynicism about how this works out (just like leave voters would have had a strong right to demand EU reform if the result had gone the other way).
All demands for clarity should be directed at the campaigners (particularly the Tory ones since they are in power) and it doesn't seem too much to expect them (not the voters) to have a clear strategy and plan, perhaps even notional timelines. If they'd used a campaign of "we'd need to wait and see what happens before committing to leave" then that would have suggested less than 100% belief in their convictions and might have caused a different outcome.
Invoke the exit clause now and stick with the plan (if you ever had one Boris et al).
I do think the slating of demographics needs to stop. It's as easy to say the older voters are wiser as it is to say they're selfish. Likewise, are the young pampered and impetous or idealistic and passionate?
This is a vote with repercussions the like of which I've never known and opinions would be high after a close vote either way and debate would run for years I suspect.
Remain voters have every right to express cynicism about how this works out (just like leave voters would have had a strong right to demand EU reform if the result had gone the other way).
All demands for clarity should be directed at the campaigners (particularly the Tory ones since they are in power) and it doesn't seem too much to expect them (not the voters) to have a clear strategy and plan, perhaps even notional timelines. If they'd used a campaign of "we'd need to wait and see what happens before committing to leave" then that would have suggested less than 100% belief in their convictions and might have caused a different outcome.
Invoke the exit clause now and stick with the plan (if you ever had one Boris et al).
Absolutely agree. There is a part of me though with an opinion sadly on the IN voters, in particular the younger generation, in that every IN voter I spoke to, more or less spoke about themselves, not about the future for their children or their children's children. More so comments about holiday's and visas it was astonishing what was at the forefront of their minds, selfishness, materialism. Yet, despite the generation gap and complaints about the demographics of the vote, the older generation were thinking about the future and had no self interest as such. I'll let others decide what are the right's and wrongs of that. Personally for me it was about countries having their own identity and their culture not being changed by a one state order of mentality. I love France, Germany, Italy and Spain and all the other European countries, I'm a partner with Europe, just not with the EU.
As we go into negotiations with the EU over our withdrawal from the club, remember the blustering Luxembourger Juncker is a puppet, and it is Merkel who calls the shots. German industry will be biting at her heels to agree tariff free trade with the UK which is such a major customer for German goods.
I think that what some people are forgetting is that there was no legal provision included in the EU. referendum, unlike the AV referendum of 2011, which had a legal trigger attached to it. Many Brexiters were given the impression that this would be 'independence day', the start of a brave new future - we are still in the EU. have no government which has any plan whatsoever as to what Britain's negotiating position will be, and a present balance of 450-150 for remain in the house of commons. Even Gove has said that it is unlikely that article 50 will be invoked before 2018. Between now and then a general election looms, again with an uncertain outcome - my guess is that there will be many twists and turns before anything like Brexit actually happens, and that the conditions of our future relationship with the EU. will not be much different to what they are now, but without voting rights.
I personally think that problem has been created by the arrogance of our own political parties, they were certain they would win and gave no thought towards the vote of the people. When you had Conservatives and Labour in the same camp, our main political powers holding hands with the EU, their own disregard for the people has now tolled the consequences and Cameron like a few others have jumped ship, like the rats they were.
I don't think 80% of the English voted to leave Ninesey. It was elderly, working class, UKIP supporting, disabled, secondary educated Christians wot dun it. The groups are all sub sets of each other. I'd draw a Venn diagram if I had the skills.
The elderly could suffer more than anyone else if the triple lock is removed on pensions or a few pension funds go tits up (I hope and think they won't, worse for those just coming up to retirement with commercial pensions which may be reduced). The younger age groups have a chance to see it through and frolic on the vast sunlit uplands which we have been promised.
Sounds like the core Labour vote
Perhaps they are regretting it because they are already being told by Leave campaigners that there won't really be an extra £350m a week for the NHS and that levels of immigration are unlikely to fall significantly.
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No - the user refers to the 'World' but oddly turns the spot light on to the English, without a single focus on 'World' issues, something we have always had to put up with anti English propaganda without a single thought to the planets issues which are far greater than the IN campaign's complaints about losing the vote and I would certainly never see myself personally as middle England. Yet looking at it's profile happily resides in Germany?...but wants to tell us to place ourselves under the microscope!
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24 hours to reflect on this and feeling a bit more philosophical about our situation.
In the long history of the UK, there have been many upheavals of various sorts and folks living at those times likely felt as unsettled as some of us do today.
The Nation(s) came through those times and progressed. I hope that this is one of those times too.
In the long history of the UK, there have been many upheavals of various sorts and folks living at those times likely felt as unsettled as some of us do today.
The Nation(s) came through those times and progressed. I hope that this is one of those times too.
I remember that Farage before the referendum had said that a win of 52%-48% for remain would amount to ''unfinished business'', and Boris Johnson echoed this view - surely the same cuts both ways. Cameron's arrogance is clear in that he did not establish any safeguards like a minimum turnout or minimum percentage difference which had to be achieved (both of which would have been normal for a major change of this kind) - the fact that he agreed to a first past the post result on something of this magnitude shows how confident he must have been (or did he just think it wouldn't happen when agreeing to it ?). I have a feeling we will be voting on this again at some stage.
I would like to add that unlike most IN assumptions I am not a Farage supporter, so have no interest in him, I voted for my own personal reasons, which are not racist, I love Europe but despise the EU and have no personal matarialist self interest other than not agreeing to a one state (not saying you suggested otherwise). You are completely correct Cameron's own arrogance along with Corbyn sealed the fate that now beholds us. However, I will strongly contest and rebuke any future referendum while I'm alive, a democratic vote was passed by 17 MILLION OUT voters.
I would like to introduce myself - I am 'the user', and 'it' ! Where I live is nothing to do with you and has no bearing on any opinions which I express on here. As a Brit. living in Europe I am directly affected by the result - as you all are. I said that I could not accept a World (meaning anywhere in it) where people were judged according to their nationality, race, religion or 'economic value' - which is what Ukip were doing with many of their posters
It doesn't matter whether the vote was won by 1.5 million of 100 votes its done. The government called the vote, laid out the conditions and now it must be obliged to leave the EU. All the people who have regrets, tough, suck it up and get on with it.