Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Goldhawk-Road said:
You need also to acknowledge the cases where men with male genitals claim to be women and are put in a female hospital ward where they go onto sexually assault someone. It's happened. Or the same type of man going into girls changing rooms and carrying out assaults. The self identification route is open to abuse.
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So what you’re saying there is sex offenders find ways to get closer to potential victims? So if you’re saying ban the above, we better ban priests, football coaches, youth groups, pubs, night clubs, festivals the list goes on as all of the above have waaaay more incidents of sexual assaults. Hang on better ban people from going into hospital full stop as there are a number of sexual assaults committed by patients on other patients and staff.
 
Willhoops said:
So what you’re saying there is sex offenders find ways to get closer to potential victims? So if you’re saying ban the above, we better ban priests, football coaches, youth groups, pubs, night clubs, festivals the list goes on as all of the above have waaaay more incidents of sexual assaults. Hang on better ban people from going into hospital full stop as there are a number of sexual assaults committed by patients on other patients and staff.
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Do any of those you mentioned have a legal right to go into a Ladies changing room or toilet? Are any of them likely to be lying in a bed next to young girls after dark in the Women's ward of a hospital? Will any share a prison cell with a teenage female offender?
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
Do any of those you mentioned have a legal right to go into a Ladies changing room or toilet? Are any of them likely to be lying in a bed next to young girls after dark in the Women's ward of a hospital? Will any share a prison cell with a teenage female offender?
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Oh so what you’re saying is getting easier access for is your preferred victim group is only important when it’s laying in the same ward in a woman… which I did when I was in hospital a few years back, it was a mixed ward, but it’s fine im not claiming to be trans.

Your other example is as spurious.. it just sounds as though the only people you worry might offend and want to put in rules for are trans or people claiming to be trans, the likes of Saville would have loved you as he was someone who put himself in a position and manipulate to have access and offend… but that’s fine because he wasn’t trans. The issue is sexual predators will try and find a way to get closer to their victims, there are way easier ways than being or pretending to be trans.
 
Willhoops said:
Oh so what you’re saying is getting easier access for is your preferred victim group is only important when it’s laying in the same ward in a woman… which I did when I was in hospital a few years back, it was a mixed ward, but it’s fine im not claiming to be trans.

Your other example is as spurious.. it just sounds as though the only people you worry might offend and want to put in rules for are trans or people claiming to be trans, the likes of Saville would have loved you as he was someone who put himself in a position and manipulate to have access and offend… but that’s fine because he wasn’t trans. The issue is sexual predators will try and find a way to get closer to their victims, there are way easier ways than being or pretending to be trans.
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Are you aware mixed sex wards were banned because of the number of sexual assaults by male patients on women?

How can my other arguments be spurious when you are giving male sex offenders who self identify as a woman A LEGAL RIGHT to go into womens places of privacy and safety? Just because the Savilles find other ways to offend, doesn't make the other right.
 
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Willhoops said:
Oh so what you’re saying is getting easier access for is your preferred victim group is only important when it’s laying in the same ward in a woman… which I did when I was in hospital a few years back, it was a mixed ward, but it’s fine im not claiming to be trans.

Your other example is as spurious.. it just sounds as though the only people you worry might offend and want to put in rules for are trans or people claiming to be trans, the likes of Saville would have loved you as he was someone who put himself in a position and manipulate to have access and offend… but that’s fine because he wasn’t trans. The issue is sexual predators will try and find a way to get closer to their victims, there are way easier ways than being or pretending to be trans.
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I am in agreement with Goldie.

If you think it's unreasonable that why even have the rules in the first place. Just have unisex toilets, no female and male anything and do away with it all.
 
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Billy Bragg
@billybragg
· 22h
Was asked why I was wearing a mask this morning while ordering breakfast. Did you see those images of the Commons, I replied, with a bare-faced govt facing the masked opposition? I don’t want anyone in here thinking I’m a Tory
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
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Billy Bragg
@billybragg
· 22h
Was asked why I was wearing a mask this morning while ordering breakfast. Did you see those images of the Commons, I replied, with a bare-faced govt facing the masked opposition? I don’t want anyone in here thinking I’m a Tory
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Especially now they're getting murdered...
 
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Okay you lot...how many trans people do you know personally/closely... I mean really closely. I know one person on here who has a relative who is trans, but the rest of you? How much experience you have of the trans community?

I have 4 close personal friends who are trans. All 4 of them have spent they lives in confusion until they began transitioning, now each one of them is feeling relief and a degree of contentment with themselves and the body they are in. And for your information it is not all about sex, you can quite happily by gay or bi and have sex with who ever you want without going through physical surgery and chemical castration etc to achieve your goals of sex, what ever they may be.

However throughout their existence each one of my friends have been abused physically and verbally and mentally and are still being abused...for the whole of their adult lives, they put up daily with "well meaning" people asking how they go to the toilet, if they have or have not got a penis.

All you heterosexual/cis males out there...what if you were asked on a regular and somewhat random basis if you have a penis...odd/weird/unnecessary/rude isn't it.

People have quoted trans people assaulting women in hospital or in changing rooms (I believe that is a vanishing small percentage compared to the number of trans/gay/bi people who have been assaulted.)

I was at a gig last night and saw another acquaintance who is transitioning, dressed in male gear as camouflage as it is too dangerous for him to walk out late at night as a woman.

Why cant we just live together respecting everyone for whom they are
 
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qprbeth said:
Okay you lot...how many trans people do you know personally/closely... I mean really closely. I know one person on here who has a relative who is trans, but the rest of you? How much experience you have of the trans community?

I have 4 close personal friends who are trans. All 4 of them have spent they lives in confusion until they began transitioning, now each one of them is feeling relief and a degree of contentment with themselves and the body they are in. And for your information it is not all about sex, you can quite happily by gay or bi and have sex with who ever you want without going through physical surgery and chemical castration etc to achieve your goals of sex, what ever they may be.

However throughout their existence each one of my friends have been abused physically and verbally and mentally and are still being abused...for the whole of their adult lives, they put up daily with "well meaning" people asking how they go to the toilet, if they have or have not got a penis.

All you heterosexual/cis males out there...what if you were asked on a regular and somewhat random basis if you have a penis...odd/weird/unnecessary/rude isn't it.

People have quoted trans people assaulting women in hospital or in changing rooms (I believe that is a vanishing small percentage compared to the number of trans/gay/bi people who have been assaulted.)

I was at a gig last night and saw another acquaintance who is transitioning, dressed in male gear as camouflage as it is too dangerous for him to walk out late at night as a woman.

Why cant we just live together respecting everyone for whom they are
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Personally, I'm very sympathetic with anyone that finds themselves in the wrong body. Who wouldn't be? But care needs to be taken as to what rights they should have and whether those rights could jeopardise the safety of women and girls. Because among all the genuine trans cases, there are sexual offenders who will take advantage of the fact that they can be a man, yet call themselves a woman in order to access female-only areas. It has happened. There are cases.

So, everything should be done to help trans people make a success of their lives, so long as female safety is not compromised.
 
qprbeth said:
Okay you lot...how many trans people do you know personally/closely... I mean really closely. I know one person on here who has a relative who is trans, but the rest of you? How much experience you have of the trans community?

I have 4 close personal friends who are trans. All 4 of them have spent they lives in confusion until they began transitioning, now each one of them is feeling relief and a degree of contentment with themselves and the body they are in. And for your information it is not all about sex, you can quite happily by gay or bi and have sex with who ever you want without going through physical surgery and chemical castration etc to achieve your goals of sex, what ever they may be.

However throughout their existence each one of my friends have been abused physically and verbally and mentally and are still being abused...for the whole of their adult lives, they put up daily with "well meaning" people asking how they go to the toilet, if they have or have not got a penis.

All you heterosexual/cis males out there...what if you were asked on a regular and somewhat random basis if you have a penis...odd/weird/unnecessary/rude isn't it.

People have quoted trans people assaulting women in hospital or in changing rooms (I believe that is a vanishing small percentage compared to the number of trans/gay/bi people who have been assaulted.)

I was at a gig last night and saw another acquaintance who is transitioning, dressed in male gear as camouflage as it is too dangerous for him to walk out late at night as a woman.

Why cant we just live together respecting everyone for whom they are
Click to expand...

That's absolutely fine beth. I have always been of the live and let live. People should be allowed to live their lives how they see fit without being harassed. There are boundaries as to what can certainly happy.

Pretty weird, maybe some people are doing it for banter (think they are funny but are not) and some people are doing it because maybe they are curious. Being chinese and whenever going to a new place, guess what sometimes i encounter racism (ching chong china man), sometimes i know people ask questions from a place of ignorance like do you know kung fu, do you eat cats and dogs etc (is that similar "Abuse"?). Some people get really sensitive about this stuff but as long as you aren't being malicious i'll get over it and you can tell generally (unless you are sensitive).

This self identifying and automatically being granted the right, i think people are just asking for the transition to be completed for certain things. Take for example changing rooms and showers, generally speaking, they are open and if someone who is genuinely trans and feels that way hasn't transitioned yet and goes and showers with her dick out/his boobs and fanny out in front of my kids (i don't have any) and you suddenly need to explain to your child what those assets are, it's not really a situation i'd want to be in (to be fair this is one of the few examples of something where its not to do with a predator).

The safety thing about sexual predators is a big one though. Predators will be predators but this just makes it real easy for predators to just self identify. Theres a reason we have rigorous checks of on certain things like being a teacher, being an officer etc, why even stop a convicted felon being a teacher or prevent *****s being able to live near schools etc, if they want to get near kids they can and will. As long as we put some line in place then it will be better than putting nothing at all.
 
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sb_73 said:
Acceptable? Yes for me. Proper satire and very funny. I suspect no one would be brave enough to write and perform this now, not worth the hassle and hatred.
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:emoticon-0102-bigsm Yes, I'd forgotten that sketch. Very good. Write that today, and you'd get death threats and Stonewall protesting outside your publisher and broadcaster.
 
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