Yet when I asked you who the racists were, Fing, you said "they know who they are". And you said they should be called out. For what, criticising a religion? And presumably you're not prepared to call them out yourself.
Off Topic The Politics Thread
- Thread starter Stroller
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
Yet when I asked you who the racists were, Fing, you said "they know who they are". And you said they should be called out. For what, criticising a religion? And presumably you're not prepared to call them out yourself.
This is an interesting tweet from a Jewish barrister, which explains well the Jewish community's concerns about Corbyn.
I'm not trying to point score here. Quite happy to read the equivalent tweet from a Muslim' about Boris Johnson. But it does give a Jewish reaction from the coal face.
A few people (including @JMPSimor) asked me to explain why I think the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn in power makes Jewish families (like my own) so fearful. Let me try and explain. 1/9
9:53 AM · Nov 4, 2019·Twitter Web App
Jeremy Brier
@jeremybrier
·
(2) The starting point is that Corbyn is, unquestionably, a modern antisemite. I say “modern” to be clear that he is not a 1930s antisemite: this is not about gas chambers. But he does not treat Jewish people like any other minority.
(3) He called terrorist groups devoted to the existential destruction of Jews as his “friends” and welcomed them to Parliament. This is no different to standing with a neo-Nazi skinhead or a KKK member. But he sees Jews differently and hopes you do too.
(4) It's not just about personal acts: a wreath to terrorists; or saying "Zionists" don't get irony. It’s what he has let fester in Labour, now a cesspit of hate against Jews. He is a recruiting sergeant for Jew haters. Electing him can only magnify what he gives credence to.
(5) How does this impact my community and make us fearful? Well, first, and this is important, history teaches us that turning a blind eye to the early warning signs is foolhardy. This is the lesson our grandparents have taught us.
(6) We fear hate crimes against Jews will be increasingly overlooked, that Far Left international alliances will be with those who regard Jews as the conspiring Other, that Holocaust education will cease to be a priority, that Jews will lose roles in public life as untrusted.
(7) We fear Jewish life will become harder, boycotts against Israel (critical to Jewish identify) or those who support Israel; we fear (and know) that Corbyn is like a magnet for antisemites (cf Nick Griffin). So violence and hostility to Jews will grow.
(8) Above all: electing this man will be the most extraordinary statement to the most persecuted people in human history, less than 80 years after the Holocaust. A bold statement that your fears don’t count, your grievances don’t matter.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremybrier/status/1191292479351533568
(9) It is unthinkable that any leader with a history of anti-black racism could be so close to power. We want to know, after everything, why are Jews still treated differently?
I'm not trying to point score here. Quite happy to read the equivalent tweet from a Muslim' about Boris Johnson. But it does give a Jewish reaction from the coal face.
A few people (including @JMPSimor) asked me to explain why I think the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn in power makes Jewish families (like my own) so fearful. Let me try and explain. 1/9
9:53 AM · Nov 4, 2019·Twitter Web App
You must log in or register to see images
Jeremy Brier
@jeremybrier
·
(2) The starting point is that Corbyn is, unquestionably, a modern antisemite. I say “modern” to be clear that he is not a 1930s antisemite: this is not about gas chambers. But he does not treat Jewish people like any other minority.
(3) He called terrorist groups devoted to the existential destruction of Jews as his “friends” and welcomed them to Parliament. This is no different to standing with a neo-Nazi skinhead or a KKK member. But he sees Jews differently and hopes you do too.
(4) It's not just about personal acts: a wreath to terrorists; or saying "Zionists" don't get irony. It’s what he has let fester in Labour, now a cesspit of hate against Jews. He is a recruiting sergeant for Jew haters. Electing him can only magnify what he gives credence to.
(5) How does this impact my community and make us fearful? Well, first, and this is important, history teaches us that turning a blind eye to the early warning signs is foolhardy. This is the lesson our grandparents have taught us.
(6) We fear hate crimes against Jews will be increasingly overlooked, that Far Left international alliances will be with those who regard Jews as the conspiring Other, that Holocaust education will cease to be a priority, that Jews will lose roles in public life as untrusted.
(7) We fear Jewish life will become harder, boycotts against Israel (critical to Jewish identify) or those who support Israel; we fear (and know) that Corbyn is like a magnet for antisemites (cf Nick Griffin). So violence and hostility to Jews will grow.
(8) Above all: electing this man will be the most extraordinary statement to the most persecuted people in human history, less than 80 years after the Holocaust. A bold statement that your fears don’t count, your grievances don’t matter.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremybrier/status/1191292479351533568
(9) It is unthinkable that any leader with a history of anti-black racism could be so close to power. We want to know, after everything, why are Jews still treated differently?
Critical to this is number 7 Goldie - 'boycotts against Israel (critical to Jewish identity). If I boycott the USA is it a racial statement against 'Yankeeism', or if I had boycotted South Africa during Apartheid would it have been a racial statement against all whites. Could a boycott of Iran, or even Russia, be construed as racially motivated ? So why do we have different rules for Israel ? He says he does not want Jews to be treated differently yet is asking for exactly that. Maybe he should ask the Roma or Sinti (Gypsies) whether they agree that the Jews are the most persecuted group in history - it was above all the Jewish lobby in the USA which prevented the Roma holocaust from being recognised for what it was at the holocaust memorial in NY.
Last edited:
Ah a Jewish Barrister who stood for the Conservative Party in 2010......not like he’d have any reason to smear Corbyn and Labour as anti-Semitic then.
Fair point, I hadn't seen that. Probably not an unbiased view then.
That's the difficult issue. We know, as a result of history, that for many Jewish people, they and Israel, are inextricably linked. Oppose Israel with the vehemence that Corbyn has, and it's not a good footing for a relationship with those Jewish members in the party. Then add to that the hate speech and threats made to Jewish members from maverick members, and Corbyn is not as sympathetic as he might otherwise have been in dealing with the disciplinary matters.
He's not against the Israeli state Goldie - at least not against it's right to exist, just against the actions of the Israeli government. Just as many Jews are, both inside and outside of Israel. The question is whether radical Zionism is a racial ideology. If we were talking about any other state where the question of first, second and third class citizenship were decided by ethnic origins, or religion, then we would have no hesitation whatsoever in describing it as racist - why should Israel be the only exception to this ? We cannot just say ''Israel is a special case'' and let them do exactly as they want in occupied territories. If there really have been hate speeches (though I would need to actually see the content of those before making judgement) or threats made to Jewish members then the question has to be asked whether these were with the official stamp of the party - if not then Corbyn has nothing to answer for.
The problem for Israel is much more complicated than that though, Cologne. Since they became a state, they have been surrounded by enemies. When they are attacked, they take ground as the victors. Corbyn makes it clear he fully supports their key enemies, including Hamas.
There's no question that there have been threats and intimidation against Jewish members of the Labour Party and MP's. These are not done with the official stamp of the party, but Jewish people say Corbyn could have done a lot more on the disciplinary side. There was a whitewash report done by Chakrabarti. Let's hope the investigation by the EHRC is thorough and impartial, and fair to both the Labour Party and the Jewish complainants.
Just so I’m clear, are you saying that ‘cos Corbyn didn’t do enough to take these complaints seriously enough, then that makes him Anti-Semitic ?
Not that alone. But if you take all the evidence together (which I outlined at length yesterday), it would be possible to make a case that he was imo.
I think it's fair to reserve judgement until the report on the investigation is out. But some of his political adversaries could, and probably will, make a case during the election campaign. Not much has been said yet, but knives are currently being sharpened by all in readiness for the official start of the campaign in a couple of days time.
I’m sorry Goldie, but you still haven’t come up with any shred of evidence that Corbyn is anti-Semitic......this just seems to go round in circles.
Trust there are still many true anti-semites out there and a fair few were and still are Conservatives in name, and no doubt some are Labour in name.....I just have not seen any evidence to convince me that Corbyn is one of them.
Well, I'm not going to convince you or Bob, Stainsy. All I will say is, it is perfectly permissable to build a case against him on a number of things that have happened. Including his speech on lack of irony, his reaction to that mural etc. And there is at least one Labour MP's that has called him anti-semitic (Margaret Hodge).
Anyway, it's my view. We'll see how things materialise
What because he's a Jew or a barrister or stood for the Conservatives 9 years ago? Which one are you hedging your bets on?
You are wasting your time Goldie. The jewish problem will come out at some point. However what 's also important to note is that 200 labour MP's don't want him as leader.
Last edited:
She's a loser Staines and when it comes to it people will be choosing between Bojo and Corbyn.
Agree I thought it was silly reply. As if someone should be discounted because he is a Tory? Stupid
I mentioned that when she confronted him. And was told on here that she had it in for him?
