Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%
  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%

  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Tschick stole my Lada.‏@iain_claxton 23h23 hours ago
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Did you spot the difference.
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what was the rape "joke"
 
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The scandal of Paul Embery’s sacking
He was dumped by the Fire Brigades Union for speaking at a pro-Brexit rally.
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spiked
13th June 2019
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Brexit Free Speech Politics UK
Paul Embery has spent 20 years as a dedicated trade-union official, fighting for better rights, conditions and pay for firefighters with the Fire Brigades Union. But today he revealed that he has been kicked off the union’s national executive and banned from office for two years.
Why? Because he delivered a pro-Brexit speech at the Leave Means Leave rally outside parliament on the day we were supposed to leave the EU.
Embery gave his reasons for speaking at the rally to spiked in April:
‘I wanted to take the opportunity, as someone from the left and the trade-union movement, to speak to thousands of ordinary working-class voters, many of whom had never been on a demo before, to talk about defending democracy and Brexit from a left perspective… The working-class people at the pro-democracy March to Leave should be the target audience for the trade-union movement.’
While it has been clear for some that the Labour Party is out of touch with the largely pro-Leave working classes, it is extremely alarming to see the wider labour and trade-union movement succumb to the same fate.
Not only that, but instead of resolving these differences through political debate, the FBU has behaved like a potty students’ union, banning and ‘No Platforming’ an alleged wrongthinker.
If trade unions, supposedly the organised voice of the working classes, are so horrified by Brexit, an idea supported by a majority of working-class people, then who will speak for the working classes today?
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This is amazing - we’re getting some real momentum here. Thank you so, so much. Let’s push this through to the end. It’s increasingly clear it’s me against Boris. And let’s win #
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apparently
the momentum has left him in last place
 
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This is amazing - we’re getting some real momentum here. Thank you so, so much. Let’s push this through to the end. It’s increasingly clear it’s me against Boris. And let’s win #
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apparently
the momentum has left him in last place

On a scale of centre to right he’s probably the closest to the centre. Doesn’t mean he’ll make the final two but he’s not just a Johnson-lite option which perhaps gives him an edge over Raab, for example.

If Johnson makes the final two he’s won. If he avoids questions and basically doesn’t open his mouth at all to risk saying something ruinous he’s made the final two. Shed a couple of stone, new girlfriend and a haircut. This is all very much planned.
 
On a scale of centre to right he’s probably the closest to the centre. Doesn’t mean he’ll make the final two but he’s not just a Johnson-lite option which perhaps gives him an edge over Raab, for example.

If Johnson makes the final two he’s won. If he avoids questions and basically doesn’t open his mouth at all to risk saying something ruinous he’s made the final two. Shed a couple of stone, new girlfriend and a haircut. This is all very much planned.

Raab will fall in behind Boris, and perhaps resume his role as Brexit Sec if Boris gets in.

Stewart will resume his role as a backbencher and hope that if Boris fails, he'll be the white knight

The EU see Boris as the UK's Donald Trump. Surely not, he doesn't send enough tweets
 
Did anyone watch QT last night and the speech made by Francesca Martinez ?
Only seen a clip on Twitter but looked pretty powerful and emotional.
A warning to those who think the Lib Dems are a new shining light.....those ****s got into bed with the tories and brought cuts to the needy and vulnerable, quicker than I’d get into bed with Holly Willoughby.
 
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Did anyone watch QT last night and the speech made by Francesca Martinez ?
Only seen a clip on Twitter but looked pretty powerful and emotional.
A warning to those who think the Lib Dems are a new shining light.....those ****s got into bed with the tories and brought cuts to the needy and vulnerable, quicker than I’d get into bed with Holly Willoughby.

The problem is that her speech, however powerful the rhetoric, was based on the very flimsy claim that austerity 'caused' an additional 120,000 deaths, which there is very little evidence for.

https://fullfact.org/health/austerity-120000-unnecessary-deaths/
 
When I saw the figures I was a bit dubious I’ll admit......good speech though

I thought it was a very good speech
Bottom line imo any austerity should have no impact the sick and disabled... those lives shouldn’t be connected in anyway to money or budget . They are treated like industry streams in the U.K. and it’s wrong

Take extra money from those who can easily afford it . One death or suffering caused from the bail out of the UK banks is one too many imo
How did the banks respond to the cash injection from us the public ... they paid themselves more and post Brexit will be operational from outside the EU where there will be even more money to make
 
I thought it was a very good speech
Bottom line imo any austerity should have no impact the sick and disabled... those lives shouldn’t be connected in anyway to money or budget . They are treated like industry streams in the U.K. and it’s wrong

Take extra money from those who can easily afford it . One death or suffering caused from the bail out of the UK banks is one too many imo
How did the banks respond to the cash injection from us the public ... they paid themselves more and post Brexit will be operational from outside the EU where there will be even more money to make

Agree with the bit about the disabled. I would not criticise the government for a scheme to help the disabled to work - and weed out the odd sponger. The problem has been that some of the assessors have simply not done their job properly. Although there is an appeals process to rectify this.

As to the banks, there are examples of individual greed and criminality which must be stamped on.

On Brexit, if the City of London banks make more money outside the EU, they'll pay more taxes
 
Agree with the bit about the disabled. I would not criticise the government for a scheme to help the disabled to work - and weed out the odd sponger. The problem has been that some of the assessors have simply not done their job properly. Although there is an appeals process to rectify this.

As to the banks, there are examples of individual greed and criminality which must be stamped on.

On Brexit, if the City of London banks make more money outside the EU, they'll pay more taxes


It's not the assessors that are carrying out their assessments incorrectly, it's the beaurocrats above them that filter their results, as they have targets to meet which is totally wrong IMO. My missus went for a job interview with one of the assessment companies, and was horrified with the answers she was given with regards to claiments. Alledgedly, a large percentage of claims are dismissed straight away, with the hope that even a few of those will be disenchanted enough to not pursue a review, thus saving the government millions - disgusting, but believably true

She turned down the job offer!
 
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It's not the assessors that are carrying out their assessments incorrectly, it's the beaurocrats above them that filter their results, as they have targets to meet which is totally wrong IMO. My missus went for a job interview with one of the assessment companies, and was horrified with the answers she was given with regards to claiments. Alledgedly, a large percentage of claims are dismissed straight away, with the hope that even a few of those will be disenchanted enough to not pursue a review, thus saving the government millions - disgusting, but believably true
When she’s between jobs my wife volunteers at Citizens Advice. Apparently they have whole teams of people (nearly all volunteers) who purely help people with navigating the benefits system, housing, credits, disability etc etc, bewildering form filling in, preparation for assessments, all for people who, mostly, are by definition in need of help. This is what happens when you try to manage a welfare system to a fixed budget, to metrics other than helping people, rather than understanding that it’s one and only objective is to meet genuine needs. Artificial complexity is added to the process, all to put people off, reduce the number of claims, disqualify them on technicalities, while paying lip service to the what the benefit is really meant to become about.

We are doing, unconsciously, something similar with health services. By making them harder to access through shortages, waiting times etc less people will access them. This may weed out a few time wasters and hypochondriacs, but for the vast majority it’s a very bad thing indeed. They won’t get relatively minor things seen to and end up in a lot worse shape, and also a lot more expensive to the NHS. It’s simply perverse.

The other thing Citizens Advice spend a lot of time on is managing personal debt.
 
When she’s between jobs my wife volunteers at Citizens Advice. Apparently they have whole teams of people (nearly all volunteers) who purely help people with navigating the benefits system, housing, credits, disability etc etc, bewildering form filling in, preparation for assessments, all for people who, mostly, are by definition in need of help. This is what happens when you try to manage a welfare system to a fixed budget, to metrics other than helping people, rather than understanding that it’s one and only objective is to meet genuine needs. Artificial complexity is added to the process, all to put people off, reduce the number of claims, disqualify them on technicalities, while paying lip service to the what the benefit is really meant to become about.

We are doing, unconsciously, something similar with health services. By making them harder to access through shortages, waiting times etc less people will access them. This may weed out a few time wasters and hypochondriacs, but for the vast majority it’s a very bad thing indeed. They won’t get relatively minor things seen to and end up in a lot worse shape, and also a lot more expensive to the NHS. It’s simply perverse.

The other thing Citizens Advice spend a lot of time on is managing personal debt.

Tracey from Swindon is having another baby again though. That’s the real issue.
 
Interesting to note that Cambridgeshire Police are investigating a number of complaints of election fraud at the Peterborough by-election including the involvement of a convicted vote-rigger...