Off Topic The Politics Thread

[rangercol]

We will leave Col, but maybe not in the reckless way that you lot now seem to want. Leaving with a Customs Union would still be leaving. Our Parluamentary democracy is working fine, it seems to me.

You're in the minority with that view according to every poll on the subject.

 

[rangercol]

not according to the standard
Evening Standard‏Verified account@standardnews 3h3 hours ago
Hundreds of pro-Brexit supporters have began gathering on Parliament Square

Mmm.....arch remain Evening Standard.
BBC reported tens of thousands .

 

[sb_73]

We will leave Col, but maybe not in the reckless way that you lot now seem to want. Leaving with a Customs Union would still be leaving. Our Parluamentary democracy is working fine, it seems to me.

From where I sit it seems to me to be the exact opposite. The relationship between the executive and the legislature is hopelessly ****ed, largely because of the way that the executive (and in particular May) have handled everything, but not helped by the hopelessly self centred behaviour of many, perhaps most, parliamentarians. Parliament cannot implement a policy, it doesn’t have the tools. We need a functioning government to do that, and we haven’t had one of those since the last election. Who knows what the other bits of our constitution, the Lords, the judiciary and the Queen think, they all, in theory at least, have a say even if not a decisive one. And the electorate, including me, is hopelessly confused about what sort of democracy we have. Is it representative democracy or direct democracy? One where the executive and legislature cop out of the big decisions by calling a referendum, telling us they will abide by the result whatever, passing a law by a big majority to ensure that they did, and then failing and/or refusing to do that. It’s a shambles, and the damage goes far deeper that the Brexit ****. Nobody trusts the government, their elected representatives whether in government or not, and it’s clearly a waste of time having referenda because whatever the result nothing happens as a result except fiasco. How do you run a country in this position.

If we do end up having EU Elections I won’t be voting in them. And I probably won’t in the next general election either. What’s the ****ing point?

 

[kiwiqpr]

You must log in or register to see media

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

The ERG have left it until the last minute in the hope something more might be offered by the EU, but once Parliament had taken No-Deal off the table, that was always unlikely.

I'd be content with Gove, and have Raab as his Brexit minister. Frankly, we'd have done a great deal better in the negotiations with the EU if we'd hidden Theresa May and Ollie Robbins in a wardrobe at the start, and sent Arlene Foster in their place

Arlene for leader?

 

[Stroller]

From where I sit it seems to me to be the exact opposite. The relationship between the executive and the legislature is hopelessly ****ed, largely because of the way that the executive (and in particular May) have handled everything, but not helped by the hopelessly self centred behaviour of many, perhaps most, parliamentarians. Parliament cannot implement a policy, it doesn’t have the tools. We need a functioning government to do that, and we haven’t had one of those since the last election. Who knows what the other bits of our constitution, the Lords, the judiciary and the Queen think, they all, in theory at least, have a say even if not a decisive one. And the electorate, including me, is hopelessly confused about what sort of democracy we have. Is it representative democracy or direct democracy? One where the executive and legislature cop out of the big decisions by calling a referendum, telling us they will abide by the result whatever, passing a law by a big majority to ensure that they did, and then failing and/or refusing to do that. It’s a shambles, and the damage goes far deeper that the Brexit ****. Nobody trusts the government, their elected representatives whether in government or not, and it’s clearly a waste of time having referenda because whatever the result nothing happens as a result except fiasco. How do you r7n a country in this position.

If we do end up having EU Elections I won’t be voting in them. And I probably won’t in the next general election either. What’s the ****ing point?

It's broken down because May thought she could bully Parliament and has treated it with contempt throughout the process. Parliament appears to have won out, but needs to show a positive resolve on Monday. I feel quite optimistic about a soft Brexiit outcome which would actually accurately reflect the will of the people. I hope we do participate in the EU elections and will certainly be casting my vote if we do. Happy non-Brexit day.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

Personally, I can't see why Brexiteers are all upset that a deal they did not want and refused to back has been defeated. The same goes for those outside talking about loss of their freedom. Constantly bleating on about betrayal and standing firm is not acceptable when it is their leadership which has, to a man, turned and run away. The fault lies fairly and squarely with the Conservatives. As the young man asked on QT last night why on earth did they not try to talk to the other parties 2 years ago? If they had this would have all been wrapped up well within time. Instead they egged each other on and gave their instructions to an incompetent PM and Brexit secretary. Instead of standing firm with Brussels they chose to stand firm with Parliament, lost and did not even realise it until it was too late.

 

[kiwiqpr]

Was it a whiter crowd than last weeks

You must log in or register to see media

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

It's broken down because May thought she could bully Parliament and has treated it with contempt throughout the process. Parliament appears to have won out, but needs to show a positive resolve on Monday. I feel quite optimistic about a soft Brexiit outcome which would actually accurately reflect the will of the people. I hope we do participate in the EU elections and will certainly be casting my vote if we do. Happy non-Brexit day.

If you think Parliament will decide on a CU arrangement on Monday and it will go through with most of the govt opposing it, you will be sorely disappointed Strolls. It's most likely to result in a GE and I don't see Corbyn romping that

 

[qprbeth]

I have just realised that of all us UK citizens .on this page....who are accused of voting for the main parties all of whom had in their manifesto to leave ..

I DIDN'T...As I live in John Bercows consistency, I did not really have a meaningful vote...I made a whole song and dance about being disenfranchised.

So no I didn't vote for a party that said it would implement Brexit... So I can come on here and bray that this was never done in my name....( That has made me feel a tadge better this morning)

Sent from my STF-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[QPR Oslo]

It's broken down because May thought she could bully Parliament and has treated it with contempt throughout the process. Parliament appears to have won out, but needs to show a positive resolve on Monday. I feel quite optimistic about a soft Brexiit outcome which would actually accurately reflect the will of the people. I hope we do participate in the EU elections and will certainly be casting my vote if we do. Happy non-Brexit day.

You are dead right about May. It seems she will try for yet a 4th time to threaten and bully her deal through parliament, if she can find another sneaky way of getting one. Bercow should stop it.

Parliamentary elite? I suppose that is Cameron or May who quit, or threaten to quit, when their utter mess needs sorting out, or they want the votes of their potential successors. Absolutely sickening. So is the behaviour of the likes of Raab, Johnson and Mogg who shout, scream, stamp an enormous amount of hot air for months claiming Mays deal is the worst possible deal in extreme floral language, and then what, they vote for it. How could anyone want someone like that to be PM? Or Drax who minutes after voting for her deal says he is ashamed of himself for doing so!

 

[rangercol]

From where I sit it seems to me to be the exact opposite. The relationship between the executive and the legislature is hopelessly ****ed, largely because of the way that the executive (and in particular May) have handled everything, but not helped by the hopelessly self centred behaviour of many, perhaps most, parliamentarians. Parliament cannot implement a policy, it doesn’t have the tools. We need a functioning government to do that, and we haven’t had one of those since the last election. Who knows what the other bits of our constitution, the Lords, the judiciary and the Queen think, they all, in theory at least, have a say even if not a decisive one. And the electorate, including me, is hopelessly confused about what sort of democracy we have. Is it representative democracy or direct democracy? One where the executive and legislature cop out of the big decisions by calling a referendum, telling us they will abide by the result whatever, passing a law by a big majority to ensure that they did, and then failing and/or refusing to do that. It’s a shambles, and the damage goes far deeper that the Brexit ****. Nobody trusts the government, their elected representatives whether in government or not, and it’s clearly a waste of time having referenda because whatever the result nothing happens as a result except fiasco. How do you r7n a country in this position.

If we do end up having EU Elections I won’t be voting in them. And I probably won’t in the next general election either. What’s the ****ing point?

Absolutely and eloquently spot on.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

There’s always a point to voting even if you just pick a random independent with no hope. Nothing changes by abstaining.

 

[rangercol]

Some on here can see no further than their hatred for all things Tory and have got their heads firmly buried in the sand.
For these same people to be applauding the likes of the odious Grieve and Letwing is unbelievable hypocrisy.
I'm certainly not praising the brexiteers in parliament and I've consistently said that they are ****s along with the rest of the ruling elite.
When we voted to leave we weren't voting for these idiots to play their power games, we voted on a principal of self determination.
Trying to cobble together the good people of this great nation who voted leave with those charlatans in Westminster is a snide slur on us all.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Some on here can see no further than their hatred for all things Tory and have got their heads firmly buried in the sand.
For these same people to be applauding the likes of the odious Grieve and Letwing is unbelievable hypocrisy.
I'm certainly not praising the brexiteers in parliament and I've consistently said that they are ****s along with the rest of the ruling elite.
When we voted to leave we weren't voting for these idiots to play their power games, we voted on a principal of self determination.
Trying to cobble together the good people of this great nation who voted leave with those charlatans in Westminster is a snide slur on us all.

But parliamentary sovereignty though.

 

[rangercol]

But parliamentary sovereingty though.

Yes and we can vote them all out.

 

[Stroller]

Some on here can see no further than their hatred for all things Tory and have got their heads firmly buried in the sand.
For these same people to be applauding the likes of the odious Grieve and Letwing is unbelievable hypocrisy.
I'm certainly not praising the brexiteers in parliament and I've consistently said that they are ****s along with the rest of the ruling elite.
When we voted to leave we weren't voting for these idiots to play their power games, we voted on a principal of self determination.
Trying to cobble together the good people of this great nation who voted leave with those charlatans in Westminster is a snide slur on us all.

The whole thing has been about the Tory party from day one.

 

[sb_73]

It's broken down because May thought she could bully Parliament and has treated it with contempt throughout the process. Parliament appears to have won out, but needs to show a positive resolve on Monday. I feel quite optimistic about a soft Brexiit outcome which would actually accurately reflect the will of the people. I hope we do participate in the EU elections and will certainly be casting my vote if we do. Happy non-Brexit day.

I think it’s gone beyond Brexit Strolls. You might get a Brexit result that you can live with (and I probably could too, though I am genuinely beyond caring) from this omnishambles, but the damage to the fabric of the country, public discourse, the constitution and the nature of our democracy will be long lasting, if not permanent. And that, again in my opinion, is much worse than a no deal Brexit.

Too late to do much about it now. Perhaps it had to happen, because the way we run things can’t cope with the 21st century. I can blame a load of named people for the Brexit **** up, with justification, but the underlying tensions behind a party political system which is largely unchanged since the nineteenth century would have led to something similar Brexit or no Brexit.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Yes and we can vote them all out.

Yes you can. Good luck.

 

[Deleted.......]

I think it’s gone beyond Brexit Strolls. You might get a Brexit result that you can live with (and I probably could too) from this omnishambles, but the damage to the fabric of the country, public discourse, the constitution and the nature of our democracy will be long lasting, if not permanent. And that, again in my opinion, is much worse than a no deal Brexit.

Too late to do much about it now.

The worst thing about this whole fiasco is it's stopped the Government and Parliament tackling all the other significant issues currently facing the country. Everything has been so focussed on Brexit for nigh on three years that other major problems seem to completely pass them by.