Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
ELLERS said:
The good thing about a GE is that we can get rid of the Boles/cooper/Soubry/Grieve and co.
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As we know Leave/Remain is not down party-lines. Yes, you maybe able to get rid of the aforementioned, however, what would you get in it's place? Would it be a case of manifesto's being Tory Hard Brexit and Labour Soft or No Brexit? Whilst politics undoubtedly needs a shake up is the further Pandora's box that a general election could bring be what this country needs at this point in time?

Whilst I agree with the reservations that people have with a 2nd Referendum, I think that a second vote is the only logical way out of the current impasse that Parliament is at due to no majority in any direction.
 
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RichardRanger said:
Whilst I agree with the reservations that people have with a 2nd Referendum, I think that a second vote is the only logical way out of the current impasse that Parliament is at due to no majority in any direction.
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<doh>
Only true peoples vote would be a GE and none of them want that.
 
RichardRanger said:
How does this differ from the argument against having a 2nd Referendum? She had one vote which she lost heavily. She's about to have a 2nd vote, which she is looking likely to loose. How does having a 3rd vote work where little to nothing has materially changed from the first which produced the heaviest Gov't defeat in history? One thing May seems to have learnt from our EU friends in her, ahem, negotiations, is that you get them to vote enough times and you get the outcome you want.
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I suspect there would be something, some change made to justify a third parliamentary vote and make it more appealing to the ERG/DUP.

As to second referendum, the difference is that a national referendum is a once in a generation vote, or at least, the result cannot be challenged until what the majority of the public voted for has been implemented. Whereas May is looking to pass a Bill, and custom dictates that government can put forward draft bills as often as it wishes. Draft bills are standard parliamentary business.
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
I suspect there would be something, some change made to justify a third parliamentary vote and make it more appealing to the ERG/DUP.

As to second referendum, the difference is that a national referendum is a once in a generation vote, or at least, the result cannot be challenged until what the majority of the public voted for has been implemented. Whereas May is looking to pass a Bill, and custom dictates that government can put forward draft bills as often as it wishes. Draft bills are standard parliamentary business.
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mmm, they have just said that the EU want all EU countries from 2020 to use the Euro... I wonder how many of our Euro lovers would accept that? Disaster in waiting.
 
ELLERS said:
Agree, as I said the other day the MP's may vote against a 'no deal' but an extension means changing laws and it will not happen. Euro elections coming up as well are major problems with an extension. I really can't see it.
Interesting what May said... No deal is not her choice but after a hit 'we will prosper' and that threat to MP's of 'being answerable to their electorate'. She is on her last legs.
If she loses I agree it will be either a no deal or GE. The good thing about a GE is that we can get rid of the Boles/cooper/Soubry/Grieve and co.
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Yes, I think a lot of Remain Tories would be cleared out by deselection since local Tory parties are heavily Leave.

Would Remain Tory voters go for Corbyn/McDonnell? I think very few

Would Leave Labour go for a Brexit Tory? More chance I would have thought

Liberals will split the Labour vote too, as well as the Chuka candidates
 
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ELLERS said:
mmm, they have just said that the EU want all EU countries from 2020 to use the Euro... I wonder how many of our Euro lovers would accept that? Disaster in waiting.
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Most Leave voters knew that was the way it was going. Even if the UK had been given continuing dispensation, the Eurozone - club within a club - would hold all the power
 
The Moogster has just said that we will leave on March 29th and that the "Thursday vote doesn’t overturn the law"
Furthermore "Law is more important than a one day motion" and "The law has been passed in a constitutional way" The MP's voted on it twice and they cant just decide to overturn it.
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
Most Leave voters knew that was the way it was going. Even if the UK had been given continuing dispensation, the Eurozone - club within a club - would hold all the power
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It would be interesting to hear from remainers on here how they would feel about using the
Euro? that currency would wreck this country.
 
ELLERS said:
<doh>
Only true peoples vote would be a GE and none of them want that.
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I agree that none of them want a GE - but part of point is what would the parties stand for in what is essentially a referendum on Brexit in the first place. Would the Conservative Party campaign for May's Deal or No Deal? Who knows what the Labour party would do! How much of an effect will this have on people's voting i have no idea, but feel it could lead to further division and still not have any further clarity on a way forward.
 
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ELLERS said:
The Moogster has just said that we will leave on March 29th and that the "Thursday vote doesn’t overturn the law"
Furthermore "Law is more important than a one day motion" and "The law has been passed in a constitutional way" The MP's voted on it twice and they cant just decide to overturn it.
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I don't think May has the guts to do it though.
 
RichardRanger said:
I agree that none of them want a GE - but part of point is what would the parties stand for in what is essentially a referendum on Brexit in the first place. Would the Conservative Party campaign for May's Deal or No Deal? Who knows what the Labour party would do! How much of an effect will this have on people's voting i have no idea, but feel it could lead to further division and still not have any further clarity on a way forward.
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I think when May is deposed (could be very soon) her deal will go with her. Conservative manifesto would depend on who is voted to replace May.
 
ELLERS said:
mmm, they have just said that the EU want all EU countries from 2020 to use the Euro... I wonder how many of our Euro lovers would accept that? Disaster in waiting.
Click to expand...
You are the gift that just keeps on giving aren’t you? This is a lie. The UK and Denmark have negotiated opt outs from the Euro which can only be overturned by the governments of the UK or Denmark. The seven other EU countries not yet in the eurozone are meant to be working towards it but the EU isn’t enforcing this and has no mechanism to enforce it.

Esther McVey made the same mistake on her twitter feed and had the piss taken out of her. A former government minister unaware of the very basics of what she is so opposed to.

Will all EU countries have to adopt the euro after 2020? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47523168
 
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RichardRanger said:
I agree that none of them want a GE - but part of point is what would the parties stand for in what is essentially a referendum on Brexit in the first place. Would the Conservative Party campaign for May's Deal or No Deal? Who knows what the Labour party would do! How much of an effect will this have on people's voting i have no idea, but feel it could lead to further division and still not have any further clarity on a way forward.
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Agree how can Corbyn vote to stay in the EU when he hates the thing? How can Tories be trusted? The only way is what Goldie says in that you deselect MP's. These are such interesting political times.
 
ELLERS said:
If she falls on her sword then it will be the default. The house can't just say stop this. Although they may try.
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If she falls on her sword after losing tonight, it will strengthen Boles/Cooper coup to have Parliament take over negotiations I think

If she stays, she would have to be persuaded to take the UK out on no deal. Remainers in the cabinet would leave. Labour vote of no confidence...
 
sb_73 said:
You are the gift that just keeps on giving aren’t you? This is a lie. The UK and Denmark have negotiated opt outs from the Euro which can only be overturned by the governments of the UK or Denmark. The seven other EU countries not yet in the eurozone are meant to be working towards it but the EU isn’t enforcing this and has no mechanism to enforce it.

Esther McVey made the same mistake on her twitter feed and had the piss taken out of her. A former government minister unaware of the very basics of what she is so opposed to.

Will all EU countries have to adopt the euro after 2020? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47523168
Click to expand...

Yes, but it doesn't get around the club within a club point
 
sb_73 said:
You are the gift that just keeps on giving aren’t you? This is a lie. The UK and Denmark have negotiated opt outs from the Euro which can only be overturned by the governments of the UK or Denmark. The seven other EU countries not yet in the eurozone are meant to be working towards it but the EU isn’t enforcing this and has no mechanism to enforce it.

Esther McVey made the same mistake on her twitter feed and had the piss taken out of her. A former government minister unaware of the very basics of what she is so opposed to.

Will all EU countries have to adopt the euro after 2020? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47523168
Click to expand...
Go and bore someone else Bs. Like the Euro army that was never coming? It will happen
 
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