Off Topic The Politics Thread

[rangercol]

I suspect there'll be quite a few people in the South that would disagree with that. Would cost them a bloomin fortune. I can't remember the exact figure but well over 50% of jobs in the North are in the public sector.

I'm an Englishman commenting from afar and completely acknowledge that I'm speaking from a position of ignorance.
If I was born in the south I'm pretty sure I'd want a united Ireland too.
My brexit point is that a hard border shouldn't mean a return to violence unless those who perpetrate it are just waiting for an excuse. In which case, eventually they'll find a different one.

 

[Deleted.......]

I'm an Englishman commenting from afar and completely acknowledge that I'm speaking from a position of ignorance.
If I was born in the south I'm pretty sure I'd want a united Ireland too.
My brexit point is that a hard border shouldn't mean a return to violence unless those who perpetrate it are just waiting for an excuse. In which case, eventually they'll find a different one.

Last paragraph is absolutely bang on.

 

[Sooperhoop]

But if it did kick off again who's fault would it be. Would para militaries use brexit as an excuse?

They'll use any excuse...

 

[rangercol]

They'll use any excuse...

So it will probably kick off again eventually whether brexit results in a hard border or not?

 

[Stroller]

I forced myself to listen to this twice and I can only conclude that this guy wants a united Ireland and that if a hard border is reinstated the ones wanting a united Ireland will take up arms again.
He clearly dislikes anyone from the British government and the unionists.
I still don't get why a hard border will result in violence, unless it's just an excuse to start up the troubles again. Also, maybe there's just as many living in the north who are looking for the same excuse. I really don't know, because as he rightly says, you need to live there to get it I suppose.
He says the border is there, yet invisible and I can't believe it's beyond everyone's capability to keep it that way even after we've left.
Yep, still none the wiser.

That's the thing, I think. You have to be Irish (whether from the North or the Republic) to understand how much this matters. The Good Friday Agreement was a massive step forward and Brexit threatens to undo that good work. The likes of Rees-Mogg and Johnson (or his old man) dismissing it as an inconvenience which can be ignored is an insult. A united Ireland is the logical longer term solution, but there must be an interim solution which avoids a hard border for Brexit to progress.

 

[Steelmonkey]

I'm an Englishman commenting from afar and completely acknowledge that I'm speaking from a position of ignorance.
If I was born in the south I'm pretty sure I'd want a united Ireland too.
My brexit point is that a hard border shouldn't mean a return to violence unless those who perpetrate it are just waiting for an excuse. In which case, eventually they'll find a different one.

Having lived in Belfast for three years in the early 90s, when the troubles were pretty full-on, I can say that you need to experience it to fully understand the depths of distrust and hatred between certain factions over there. Whilst the Good Friday agreement bought and end to the senseless killings of civilians and security forces to an end, these people still have access to all the weapons they need, and still possess the knowledge required to start up a full scale campaign again. There are still large divides, and whilst these groups are "disarmed" they still carry out attacks, normally punishment beatings. The groups run a lot of illegal activities, during the troubles this was to raise funds for weapons but now it lines their pockets - I still have friends over there, and normally go over once or twice a year for work.

Whilst a united Ireland may suit the Republican cause, be it the IRA or any of the smaller terrorist groups, I would imagine you would see renewed attacks by the Loyalist terror groups UVF, UDA, UFF or even the Red Hand Commando, who would be wholey opposed to allowing NI to break away from the UK.

The whole thing is a clusterfuck, and everything should be done to prevent a hard border being re-instated.

 

[sb_73]

Having lived in Belfast for three years in the early 90s, when the troubles were pretty full-on, I can say that you need to experience it to fully understand the depths of distrust and hatred between certain factions over there. Whilst the Good Friday agreement bought and end to the senseless killings of civilians and security forces to an end, these people still have access to all the weapons they need, and still possess the knowledge required to start up a full scale campaign again. There are still large divides, and whilst these groups are "disarmed" they still carry out attacks, normally punishment beatings. The groups run a lot of illegal activities, during the troubles this was to raise funds for weapons but now it lines their pockets - I still have friends over there, and normally go over once or twice a year for work.

Whilst a united Ireland may suit the Republican cause, be it the IRA or any of the smaller terrorist groups, I would imagine you would see renewed attacks by the Loyalist terror groups UVF, UDA, UFF or even the Red Hand Commando, who would be wholey opposed to allowing NI to break away from the UK.

The whole thing is a clusterfuck, and everything should be done to prevent a hard border being re-instated.

Demographics will lead to a United Ireland eventually, the Catholic/Republican population is growing faster than the Protestant/unionists, but it’s not just the Northern Irish who have to want it, there will be an all Ireland vote. Doubtless there will be ‘loyalist’ actions after the decision is made.

I spent a week working in the Royal Victoria Hospital in Belfast in 1992, right on the Falls Road, largely Catholic area, but the senior management of the hospital were Protestant. When we left they gave us a nice gift, framed prints of the hospital from Victorian Times. They were wrapped with orange ribbon, which as one of my colleagues noted, was a carefully thought out gesture. These divisions run very deep.

As an aside, I agree with Nines, this thread has run its course. It’s is both painful to read sometimes and a very accurate reflection of how split our country is. Personally, I don’t need to be reminded of this crap any more, so until or unless something changes, I don’t think I’ll be playing much.

 

[Sooperhoop]

I lived in the South back in the 70s, whilst it was as far from the troubles on that island as you could be the nationalism of the Irish people was vividly evident. I visited my then wife's relations in the North and was really shocked at what I saw which the residents basically considered quite normal at the time. The mistrust between the two sides will always be there, just look at how James McClean was vilified for refusing to wear a poppy on his shirt yet he was only following what he and his family's experiences had made him and it is so deep-rooted neither side will change their view.

Outsiders will despair at the impasse but that sectarianism which also fuels the Celtic/Rangers hatred has been going strong for over 300 years...

 

[Steelmonkey]

Outsiders will despair at the impasse but that sectarianism which also fuels the Celtic/Rangers hatred has been going strong for over 300 years...

I see that **** every day up here, it's not on the same level as NI but the religious divide leads to some very bitter people

 

[Frome-Ranger]

People's vote rally has reportedly attracted 670,000 people.

 

[rangercol]

People's vote rally has reportedly attracted 670,000 people.

17.4 million voted to leave.

 

[rangercol]

That's the thing, I think. You have to be Irish (whether from the North or the Republic) to understand how much this matters. The Good Friday Agreement was a massive step forward and Brexit threatens to undo that good work. The likes of Rees-Mogg and Johnson (or his old man) dismissing it as an inconvenience which can be ignored is an insult. A united Ireland is the logical longer term solution, but there must be an interim solution which avoids a hard border for Brexit to progress.

Demographics will lead to a United Ireland eventually, the Catholic/Republican population is growing faster than the Protestant/unionists, but it’s not just the Northern Irish who have to want it, there will be an all Ireland vote. Doubtless there will be ‘loyalist’ actions after the decision is made.

I spent a week working in the Royal Victoria Hospital in Belfast in 1992, right on the Falls Road, largely Catholic area, but the senior management of the hospital were Protestant. When we left they gave us a nice gift, framed prints of the hospital from Victorian Times. They were wrapped with orange ribbon, which as one of my colleagues noted, was a carefully thought out gesture. These divisions run very deep.

As an aside, I agree with Nines, this thread has run its course. It’s is both painful to read sometimes and a very accurate reflection of how split our country is. Personally, I don’t need to be reminded of this crap any more, so until or unless something changes, I don’t think I’ll be playing much.

I lived in the South back in the 70s, whilst it was as far from the troubles on that island as you could be the nationalism of the Irish people was vividly evident. I visited my then wife's relations in the North and was really shocked at what I saw which the residents basically considered quite normal at the time. The mistrust between the two sides will always be there, just look at how James McClean was vilified for refusing to wear a poppy on his shirt yet he was only following what he and his family's experiences had made him and it is so deep-rooted neither side will change their view.

Outsiders will despair at the impasse but that sectarianism which also fuels the Celtic/Rangers hatred has been going strong for over 300 years...

Don't disagree with any of this, but no one is explaining WHY switching to a hard border would mean a return to violence.

 

[Deleted.......]

17.4 million voted to leave.

I thought you, Ellers and Goldie would have been there Col!

 

[Staines R's]

People's vote rally has reportedly attracted 670,000 people.

It’s also been reported that there has been a massive shortage of Prawns, Feta cheese and Prosecco in the surrounding area.....the middle class can’t march on an empty stomach.

 

[ELLERS]

I thought you, Ellers and Goldie would have been there Col!

My mate his wife and 3 kids are there shopping. I hope they don't count them as well.
I heard they have included the lamp posts in that figure so it can reach a million.

 

[rangercol]

It’s also been reported that there has been a massive shortage of Prawns, Feta cheese and Prosecco in the surrounding area.....the middle class can’t march on an empty stomach.

Sales at Waitrose will be way down!

 

[Deleted.......]

My mate his wife and 3 kids are there shopping. I hope they don't count them as well.
I heard they have included the lamp posts in that figure so it can reach a million.

Don't really see the point. I went on the Stop the war one with over a million people - that went well.

Lovely day out mind - a couple of hours walking in the February sunshine then the rest of the day on the lash in Camden watching the Six Nations! Hardly Che Guevara stuff...

 

[ELLERS]

Someone on the news has just called some of the speakers hypocrites as they said that the "stop the war' march was a waste of time and today they are speaking.
I wonder if Lily Allen will be there supporting the event like she did Fulham...and then went to Chelsea?

 

[Deleted.......]

Someone on the news has just called some of the speakers hypocrites as they that the "stop the war' march was a waste of time and today they are speaking.
I wonder if Lily Allen will be there supporting the event like she did Fulham...and then went to Chelsea?

If Tony Blair is there I hope someone throws a rotten tomato at him

 

[ELLERS]

If Tony Blair is there I hope someone throws a rotten tomato at him

A French tomato!