Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
ELLERS said:
Well, hopefully things will be different post Brexit. people who come here should be vetted and working (or at least be able to support themselves.
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Yes, and that's what the EU says too.

Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance.

Immigration was a massive red herring in the referendum campaign.
 
Look at the stats. Many more non EU migrants enter the country than EU ones (338,000 v 226,000 in the year to August 2018, source ONS). Many fewer non EU migrants are leaving the country than EU ones (81,000 v 138,000 in the same time period) a trend which is growing since the referendum. For nearly a decade the government has had this ‘tens of thousands’ net migration target, but the fact is that the immigration that we can control, from outside the EU, has grown by more than that which we allegedly can’t control from the EU (though mysteriously other EU countries manage to).

It’s a giant red herring, unless the real issue is people who would prefer to have a white Australian for a neighbour than a Bulgarian. As Farage admitted a few years back (though he said German rather than Australian). If people want a white only and/or English speaking only immigration policy they should say so and we can have a debate about it. I seriously doubt that many for whom immigration is a big issue (and I can understand why for many it is) would be happy for all the Romanians to disappear and be replaced by Indonesians, even highly educated ones.

Or you can just look at real world economics, where everything is based on continual growth. Without immigration, given the UK demographics, growth and the tax take would be even lower.
 
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Stroller said:
Yes, and that's what the EU says too.

Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance.

Immigration was a massive red herring in the referendum campaign.
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So the 1million that went to Germany were all working and self-sufficient? So Stroller you are wrong there.
We have had too many people come to the UK putting a burden on the health services/housing schools and claiming benefits. It needed to stop and be controlled. I am all for helping people but I also hate people taking me for a ride.
 
ELLERS said:
So the 1million that went to Germany were all working and self-sufficient? So Stroller you are wrong there.
We have had too many people come to the UK putting a burden on the health services/housing schools and claiming benefits. It needed to stop and be controlled. I am all for helping people but I also hate people taking me for a ride.
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The million that Germany took in were refugees, nothing to do with EU free movement.

I'll try again.....

Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance.

Your misunderstanding of the issue is typical of those who voted for Brexit because they don't like immigrants.
 
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ELLERS said:
So the 1million that went to Germany were all working and self-sufficient? So Stroller you are wrong there.
We have had too many people come to the UK putting a burden on the health services/housing schools and claiming benefits. It needed to stop and be controlled. I am all for helping people but I also hate people taking me for a ride.
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Stroller was talking about intra EU migration. The million who went to Germany were refugees/asylum seekers. Different thing entirely.

Regarding the ‘burden’ that EU migrants put on public services, they don’t.
You must log in or register to see images

Granted schools and health services might be under pressure in some areas, but this is a planning and investment issue, not a ‘burden’.
 
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Stroller said:
Your misunderstanding of the issue is typical of those who voted for Brexit because they don't like immigrants.
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Your making assumptions again Stroller.
okay my mistake re refugees as I wasn't concentrating. That still doesn't answer my question about EU citizens coming here.
I seem to remember we were told 10K Pols were coming and nearly a million later they admitted they got it wrong.
people keep saying we are small country so bringing in 200K+ people from the EU doesn't help us.

By the way how do you keep checks on people from the EU when half the time no one knows they are here? That's why Sb chart is worthless.
 
sb_73 said:
Stroller was talking about intra EU migration. The million who went to Germany were refugees/asylum seekers. Different thing entirely.

Regarding the ‘burden’ that EU migrants put on public services, they don’t.
You must log in or register to see images

Granted schools and health services might be under pressure in some areas, but this is a planning and investment issue, not a ‘burden’.
Click to expand...
What a load of old tosh. I could knock that up in 5 minutes. There is more to it than just figures.
 
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We retained our right for independent border control as part of the EU. Border control can stop anyone they suspect and refuse entry. EU nationals can only stay 3 months without evidence of proper documentation supporting their right to stay. It's our government who don't keep track of these folk.
 
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sb_73 said:
I know. You can prove anything with facts, can’t you?

Mock, deny, ignore.
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So how do they keep records of all those that come in? Truth is they don't we have many many people here from the EU that use services/share addresses/identification and so on that your chart doesn't incorporate. I am not ignoring it, I am just not stupid enough to believe it.
 
bobmid said:
We retained our right for independent border control as part of the EU. Border control can stop anyone they suspect and refuse entry. EU nationals can only stay 3 months without evidence of proper documentation supporting their right to stay. It's our government who don't keep track of these folk.
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So they put out really useful charts so the intelligent folk can use them as evidence? Personally, I would rather believe what I see with my own eyes.
 
sb_73 said:
Stroller was talking about intra EU migration. The million who went to Germany were refugees/asylum seekers. Different thing entirely.

Regarding the ‘burden’ that EU migrants put on public services, they don’t.
You must log in or register to see images

Granted schools and health services might be under pressure in some areas, but this is a planning and investment issue, not a ‘burden’.
Click to expand...

Our Government has absolutely no idea how many EU citizens live in the UK
https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...lords-theresa-may-angela-merkel-a7609126.html

That blows your chart firmly out of the water. If we have no idea then how can your 'pretty colourful' chart have any substance? Truth is, it doesn't. I like the colours though.
 
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ELLERS said:
Our Government has absolutely no idea how many EU citizens live in the UK
https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...lords-theresa-may-angela-merkel-a7609126.html

That blows your chart firmly out of the water. If we have no idea then how can your 'pretty colourful' chart have any substance? Truth is, it doesn't. I like the colours though.
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I’m quite prepared to believe that article, it would seem logical that a **** administration would have no idea how many EU, or other, migrants there are in the UK. And I’m pretty certain that on 1 April next year our border security and immigration controls will be just as shambolic as they have been for the last few decades. But the pretty chart is still directionally correct, the vast majority of EU migrants are young and here to work. They pay tax and put more into the system than they take out. Which I know you won’t believe, so there is little point in continuing this debate.

But you still have a chance to gracefully admit to Stroller that your comparison of refugees going to Germany and EU migrants coming to the UK was mistaken. Go on, surprise me.
 
sb_73 said:
But you still have a chance to gracefully admit to Stroller that your comparison of refugees going to Germany and EU migrants coming to the UK was mistaken. Go on, surprise me.
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As I said your chart is worthless and I am pleased you believe the article. I have not said it will get any better and if my memory is correct I have mocked some of what Brexitiers have said in the past. I may have voted Brexit but I still know when someone is spinning a yarn.
As for you comment on Stroller (which I guess is a way of getting off what I said)...I also believe I said I made a mistake through not concentrating so I don't need someone else telling what to do thanks. :emoticon-0148-yes:
 
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ELLERS said:
As I said your chart is worthless and I am pleased you believe the article. I have not said it will get any better and if my memory is correct I have mocked some of what Brexitiers have said in the past. I may have voted Brexit but I still know when someone is spinning a yarn.
As for you comment on Stroller (which I guess is a way of getting off what I said)...I also believe I said I made a mistake through not concentrating so I don't need someone else telling what to do thanks. :emoticon-0148-yes:
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Fair enough having tracked back I see you did admit to the mistake. Apologies.
 
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