Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
kiwiqpr said:
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The Italian elections are a disaster for the EU. Whatever the outcome of the leadership it will be Eurosceptic.
Notice how Media (BBC/SKY) have dropped the story? Can you imagine if the Pro European bloke had won?<yikes> It would have been 24hr coverage of how Brexit will fail. It's all gone very quiet :emoticon-0127-lipss
Even 'Porthole Portillo' said that many EU counties have different needs and will put pressure on Brussels to make deals easy otherwise those countries will become more Eurosceptic.
On another note, it was really encouraging listing to some geeky bloke on the news saying that the UK has a strong negotiating hand and should not be so 'wimpy' (sorry forgot word he used) and should enter these talks more confidently.
 
ELLERS said:
Nice cut and paste however it's all could/maybe/might blah blah blah. Nothing really has happened.
I listened to a bloke on that Bloomberg channel talking about the pound and that we can't put all the blame on Brexit. Most problems are due to fear/uncertainty. To be honest they won't be stopping planes or driving licences not being valid...it's all fear mongering. Come back when something actually has been a nightmare for us.
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But surely it is the prospect of Brexit that's causing all this fear and uncertainty?
 
Uber_Hoop said:
True. Like you, not a fan of hers.

So, what questions would you have put on the referendum paper and how would you have phrased them in order to help the mentally challenged to understand what they were voting for?
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I think we are all mentally challenged when it comes to Brexit - there just isn't enough detail to make an informed decision, and there is and has been so much wildly contrasting opinion, misinformation and obfuscation that I don't think any of us can really see a clear picture despite our protestations to the contrary.

If you consider a general election - both the 2 main parties seek to achieve similar ends... prosperity, safety etc. with relatively coherent strategies of how they are going to achieve this. The argument for Remain was for the status quo, with warnings of economic instability (what Ellers calls 'project fear') which was an inherently cautious approach, and incidentally what the Tories have used for years e.g. 'You can't trust Labout with Law & order' and ' you can't trust Labour with the economy'.

The case for Brexit was much more aspirational, filled with promises, the success of which that can only be measured after the fact - which is problematic for people like me who like a bit more certainty. The messages and promises from both sides have been so vastly divergent that the only position I can take is that someone is wrong - they can't both be right.

So to ask what the questions on the ballot paper should be is, for me, putting the cart before the horse. You can't ask what the question should be until you know what the options are. Some here say the option should simply be a binary in or out... but again my response is what does 'out' entail. It's not safe to give a free rein to a government that are clearly incompetent, ill-informed and can't even agree amongst themselves what Brexit should mean in practice.

As an aside, Britain is one of the wealthiest countries in the world. My personal opinion is that we are desperately need of social reform that ensures the wealthiest do not continue to become wealthier at the expense of the rest of us - there is no doubt that deprivation and poverty have been allowed to increase, and that successive governments have failed to protect our interests.

And it's no coincidence that some of the areas that voted most strongly for Brexit are the most disadvantaged 'forgotten' communities. People have (marginally) voted for change and to take back what they feel has been taken from them - however where I differ from the Leave position is how that change should come about.

I honestly don't believe that Brexit will address this sense of alienation and inequality. When I look at the people in power who are most strongly in favour I see individuals who will benefit personally from massive deregulation, dismantling of worker protections, increased privatisation of public services and a move towards a low wage economy - and for me that's not taking back control... it's giving it away.
 
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seagullhoop said:
But surely it is the prospect of Brexit that's causing all this fear and uncertainty?
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I expected that response but not according to many of the market analysts I have listened to of late. Agree it has not helped but people are saying it is all Brexits fault which is wide of the mark.
 
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