The apparent Brexit harmony of the EU won't last if Barnier attempts to deliver a no-deal. Self-interest of member states will kick in
Off Topic The Politics Thread
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The apparent Brexit harmony of the EU won't last if Barnier attempts to deliver a no-deal. Self-interest of member states will kick in
I doubt that there will be many that care that much, and those few that are slightly bothered now will be bored to tears with the whole long playing idiotic suicide note by then.
Strikes me the self interest of the 27 would be best served by the U.K. not leaving the EU, and failing that milking us for everything they can. Perhaps there is a gamble that running down the clock will either force us to cave in on terms because we will be tragically unprepared for no deal, or ask to put back leaving a few years.
The EU don't want a no-deal, and nor should we, but there are elements of the Tory party that do want it. Traitors.
I really don’t think this whole thing revolves around Barnier ... that just UK perception imo
A tainted new story at best
The EU is powerful and I believe are only following the rules written into EU law
What really pisses me off is the common brexiteers who start talking about corruption and wine cellars. I am 100% pro EU and fully praise what they have done especially for the farming sector and watching Ireland grow has been brilliant imo.
I challenge any brexiteer head on as their vote has made this mess and was in reality just a protest vote. Our political parties in the UK are the joke of the world currently and pretty sure everyone is fed up. The principle of the UK standing on its own always appeals to me but I came to the conclusion years ago that I hold no confidence in the system of changing and delivering it
The English way is now always someone’s else fault. And I have always said that people acting on a united front together in the UK is almost impossible.
State again that you pick any road in the UK and ask them to put on a event like a jumble sale and you will find division, rejection,dictation and unbalance
This a cultural problem and will take decades if it can be fixed
This a cultural problem and will take decades if it can be fixed
Dipper I am not Nostradamus! I saw the story on a news channel (could have been CNN or some other satellite channel). I then watched the BBC news later and they didn't even report it so I asked why? I posted and later you asked for links so I posted them. It's not rocket science. I am not some sort of time traveler.
Whistling in the dark, Goldie. You, 'tell 'em to **** off' Col, our disfunctional government, and the rest of the deluded Leave ****ers seem to be prepared to seriously damage our own future, comforted by the fact that it will also harm the rest of the EU in some unclear way. Traitors.
With respect Paul, you do spout some bollox sometimes.
I still like you though
How lovely.
Why the need to be so insulting?
Leave supporters don't agree that leaving the wonderful EU will seriously damage our own future. I believe the complete opposite.
I'll now await more obnoxious insults.
With respect, Col, the vast majority of those calling for a hard Brexit are either clearly quite dim (Barnsley etc.) or have next to nothing to lose (Daily Mail-reading closet racist pensioners). That’s not to say there aren’t exceptions as you aren’t either of the above IMO.
Why would anyone specifically want a hard Brexit? Surely an EFTA type agreement is the best plausible outcome.
The insults don’t help anyone, but they are a pretty good indication of the state of this country, the frustration and the division.
I don’t see how a genuine no deal can improve our future as you are claiming, and you should spell out how it will. Because the neither government, which you agree is incompetent, or any other political party represented in Parliament, is arguing that, so back up your opinion.
Ignoring the economic impact, or what the markets will do to us:
How will a genuinely hard border in Ireland, which even the DUP doesn’t want, improve the lives of the Northern Irish?
How will no security agreements with the EU improve your safety?
How will having no agreement on citizenship improve the lives of Britons living in the EU (let’s not worry about EU citizens living here)?
How will having to set up dozens of agencies to regulate areas that the EU does for us now help us spend more money on the NHS, education, defence? Let alone give us confidence that we are regulating new medicines properly, ensuring aviation, food safety and managing dozens of other vital areas effectively?
How will leaving the European Common Aviation area help us travel, and travel safely?
How will not having a single trade agreement in place with any other country, and being kicked out of not just the biggest trade agreement with 27 countries in the world but 55 others that the EU has negotiated, help our balance of payments and economic growth?
How will increased regulation and tariffs, plus delays at borders, help the profitability of any company which imports or exports to the EU?
I could go on and on. If you agree we need a deal in any single area you agree that ‘no deal’ and walking away from negotiations is not an option, and that your ‘tell ‘em to **** off’ mantra is just like Stroller’s insults, a cry of frustration.
A bit narrow minded and insulting, if you don’t mind me saying.
I would think a lot of people, young and old, left and right, voted for Brexit for a wide variety of reasons and not only ‘the dim and the old’ (the same pensioners who fought for our freedom possibly?).
I like to think of myself as far left, and I voted to leave as I think it’s wrong that rich, unelected ****ers are paid millions in wages and pensions by our country ( and the rest of Europe’s tax payers), when the money could and should be used to fund a better system for the poor and needy.
Sorry if I’m being simplistic and I bow down to your obviously higher intelligence.
It is a cry of frustration. The only reason I have been urging us to walk away is because, IMO!!, the EU have been blocking all attempts to move the negotiations on. We don't agree on this I know.
I would much prefer a good deal for EVERYONE.
I just don't see why our Country should kowtow to the EU just because we want to leave what I believe is an undemocratic, protectionist, failing political experiment. Again we disagree on this too so no point in going on about it.
My response to Stroller (I try to avoid responding to the stuff he posts, but sometimes there's no alternative) was purely about being called a "****er" for having a different view to him. It's not the first time he's resorted to this and no doubt it won't be the last!
I'm not going to answer all your questions, although on the last one, there doesn't have to be increased tariffs and indeed Countries can charge as much or as little as they want to on imports as I understand it. We certainly can't do that with any Country outside the EU at present as we're not allowed.
I have heard positive answers to all the questions you pose, with so called experts on both sides calling their arguments fact. Who to believe?
Your kind of doom and gloom forecasting reminds me of Osbourne and Cameron before the vote..........project fear.
I have never said that I don't anticipate some quite serious problems over the coming years, as the EU make it so hard for anyone to shake off their shackles, but I do believe in this Country (not the present bunch of ruling idiots) and I do believe that we will be better off out of the EU in the not too distant future.
That's precisely the kind of comment that just hardens the view of people who voted to leave.
You generalise that nearly all those who voted to leave are either thick or racist. It's this kind of sneering, "I know better than you" attitude that we got from the ruling elite before the vote.
With respect..............it's patronising guff!
mmm, a bit of a generalization there Watford. If things go wrong then we all have something to lose. Just because you voted Brexit doesn't mean that you are some 'thick racist pensioner from Stoke'. It's like me saying remainers are all sheep.
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@Staines R's @rangercol @ELLERS
Easier to reply to you all at once. I was very specifically referring to those who still, 17 months on, with the additional info we now have on what hard and soft Brexit really means, have this ‘hard Brexit now’ attitude. Fortunately that’s a small percentage of those who voted Leave back last June and wasn’t meant to patronise all Brexiteers.
Those who do honestly still have that attitude, I really question why. It’s a damage limitation exercise now and that’s the most damaging option.
Easier to reply to you all at once. I was very specifically referring to those who still, 17 months on, with the additional info we now have on what hard and soft Brexit really means, have this ‘hard Brexit now’ attitude. Fortunately that’s a small percentage of those who voted Leave back last June and wasn’t meant to patronise all Brexiteers.
Those who do honestly still have that attitude, I really question why. It’s a damage limitation exercise now and that’s the most damaging option.
My post was unnecessarily insulting, Col, and for that I apologise to Goldie and yourself. It was indeed, though, a cry of frustration at the 'tell 'em to **** off' stance which I consider to be dangerous and irresponsible. A no-deal Brexit would be disastrous in so many ways, I believe, and to see people such as yourselves cheering it on just so that they can stick two fingers up to the EU, is extremely hard to take.
I appreciate the response Col, seriously.
I can’t predict the future, I can only guess based on what I hear and read. I think we will end up with some sort of deal, I also think the stress caused to ordinary people from this process - especially migrants of whatever nationality and small businesses, is criminal and both the UK and EU should shoulder the blame for that. And ****ing apologise and sort it. it’s stressing me and I have comparatively little at risk.
But if Johnson and Gove can’t apologise for getting a mother an extra 5 years in an Iranian jail I guess I’ll have to whistle on that. For balance I can’t imagine Juncker, the Sepp Blatter of politics, saying sorry for anything.