Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
rangercol said:
So that odious, complete and utter **** of a lawyer, Phil Shiner is finally struck off.
<snip>

The human rights, right-on brigade have gone eerily quiet.
These liberal, own Country haters would last precisely 30 seconds if they were put on a front line with high calibre rounds whistling past their heads.

It's about time this Country started treating our veterans with the respect and care they so richly deserve.

Did I mention that Phil Shiner is a complete ****?
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Your outrage is noted and shared by me, proud to be one of the human rights brigade, and a liberal, too - but not a hater of my own country. Our troops are human beings too, and deserve the same rights as the rest of us.

I cannot understand why the MoD and the government didn't support our (and their) troops properly when this all started. I'm not sure what happens next. Any idea?
 
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TheBigDipper said:
Your outrage is noted and shared by me, proud to be one of the human rights brigade, and a liberal, too - but not a hater of my own country. Our troops are human beings too, and deserve the same rights as the rest of us.

I cannot understand why the MoD and the government didn't support our (and their) troops properly when this all started. I'm not sure what happens next. Any idea?
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Continued persecution of our brave troops by people who can't even begin to understand the pressures of close-quarter combat?
Plus the continued betrayal of those troops once they are home.
 
rangercol said:
Continued persecution of our brave troops by people who can't even begin to understand the pressures of close-quarter combat?
Plus the continued betrayal of those troops once they are home.
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You think? Let's hope not. One of the things Mrs May has said that I truly hope she gets the chance to implement is to say "No thanks" when we're asked to send troops to fights that aren't really our business.
 
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TheBigDipper said:
You think? Let's hope not. One of the things Mrs May has said that I truly hope she gets the chance to implement is to say "No thanks" when we're asked to send troops to fights that aren't really our business.
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I think she's got that message, and the notion that we should fashion other nations in our own likeness. But it is fc uk ing difficult lest we walk away from a Kosovo or Rwanda. And where we fear to tread, the Russian bear may step in
 
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KooPeeArr said:
The one time is one time too many point is still subjective and based on one of the following (to my mind anyway):-
a) You'd have been happy to stay in the EU if the current set up never returned a vote that the UK wasn't in favour of (either meaning the UK runs the EU or much less legislation ever gets passed).
b) You'd have been happy to stay in the EU if the representation was democratically fairer even if that meant potentially less laws in the UK's favour.
c) You'd have wanted out whatever.

There's plenty of scope outside of those options that 48% of the voters in the referendum believe in (albeit academically now) that does allow for just one law against us not being too many.

Your view is perfectly fine for your perspective but for a thread where the debate continues it's also fair to say that the UK hasn't exactly been dictated to (ie against our will) on any kind of level.
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OK so continuing the debate I utterly reject your assertion that the UK hasn't been dictated to, against our will on any kind of level. If you were too young to have voted in 1975 and then had to watch with no voice as EU treaties were pushed through Parliament on a wink and a nod, against your wishes, then I can categorically state you were dictated to. It's quite amusing seeing the sheer number of democrats now wanting all the minutiae in all matters relating to our future relationship with the EU spelled out. Damascene conversions are all very welcome in these matters of course, but the cynic in me has doubts. Why wait until now to start calling for democratic scrutiny and consensus over the EU?
 
Stroller said:
Not touchy at all! I was merely curious to know how many EU laws we have voted against and did a quick search. Just trying to shed some light after you described someone's misapprehension as a lie. It's not 'my own' source, just one I happened upon. As I have said, my interpretation of the fact revealed (I take it to be a fact, unless you know better) is that 56 occasions out of 2,592 votes is a pretty small number. Your interpretation is that one would be too many. We differ.

What would be more enlightening, is to know exactly what these 56 laws are and why we voted against. Any idea?
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Again Stroller it's your source in support of your argument. If you're that interested I'm sure it's easy enough to find out. I'm not and I've told you why.
 
colognehornet said:
The 2% of laws which Britain voted against is actually a smaller number than for any other EU. state. Implying that Britain got its own way more than any other country.
Earlier I referred to Britain as having its democratic image tarnished by the Brexit campaign, which drew some responses on here. I should say that this was not because of the result, but rather the manner of the Brexit debate - the lack of real facts, on what should have been the biggest debate in recent history, not to mention the first political murder in modern British history. This was all followed closely by the media in other countries, included the quality (or lack of it) displayed on some Ukip posters. It was also remarked that political leaders normally give the populace a choice between preserving the status quo, on the one hand, and initiating a change which the government wants on the other. As it happened Cameron opened the way for a protest vote which engineered a situation where the government was forced to do something which it didn't want to do, and where there was nobody on the other side with any real plan - this all very definitely tarnished Britain's image abroad.
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OK so has the media you follow had anything to say about David Cameron trying to get a national newspaper editor sacked because he wasn't towing the government line over Brexit? Did they have anything to say about Project Fear? Mark Carney sandwich-boarding the end is nigh? Punishment budgets from our own government? Punishment beatings from our EU partners if we dared to leave?

You started this by stating that Britain's democratic image had taken a knock. Did the democratic image of the EU take a knock when it's own president said the following?

"There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties".
 
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GoldhawkRd said:
Where a government gives the voting populace a choice, even though it supports the status quo, it's called democracy.

Where a government gives the voting populace a choice, but won't recognise the result and instead colludes with foreign powers to make the electorate vote again until it has the answer it wants as Ireland did, it's called standard EU business
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Spot on. This is Junker (again) talking about the French referendum on Lisbon.

"If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue'."

The President of The European Union.

In 2005 the French people rejected the Lisbon Treaty by 55%-45%. In 2007 the French government signed the Lisbon Treaty.

EU democracy.
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Telford Ranger said:
Spot on. This is Junker (again) talking about the French referendum on Lisbon.

"If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue'."

The President of The European Union.

In 2005 the French people rejected the Lisbon Treaty by 55%-45%. In 2007 the French government signed the Lisbon Treaty.

EU democracy.
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"In a 52-48 referendum, this would be unfinished business by a long way." Nigel Farage, 17 May
 
Telford Ranger said:
Ah we get there in the end.

So you don't know what you're for but you're absolutely certain you're for it?
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That doesn't work, I'm afraid.

I'm saying I'm relaxed about the tiny number of EU laws we have voted against. I don't really need to know the details. You are outraged, but you don't know what by.
 
Stroller said:
That doesn't work, I'm afraid.

I'm saying I'm relaxed about the tiny number of EU laws we have voted against. I don't really need to know the details. You are outraged, but you don't know what by.
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If you don't know the details then how could you know whether you should be relaxed or not?

I do know I haven't been given a chance to vote for or against anybody who proposes EU law. I know I haven't got a vote to approve or remove them. They haven't asked my permission to frame the laws which shape my life. Until they do, one law is one law too many. You consider this outrage. Some people call it democratic accountability.
 
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Telford Ranger said:
If you don't know the details then how could you know whether you should be relaxed or not?

I do know I haven't been given a chance to vote for or against anybody who proposes EU law. I know I haven't got a vote to approve or remove them. They haven't asked my permission to frame the laws which shape my life. Until they do, one law is one law too many. You consider this outrage. Some people call it democratic accountability.
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Which of these 56 laws imposed on us by the EU would you repeal, and why?
 
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