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The Midfield Debate

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by luvgonzo, Aug 9, 2022.

  1. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

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    I get both sides on this and as much as I'd like us to sign someone we certainly shouldn't panic.

    At the moment Thiago is out and he'll take a few weeks to settle again when back.

    Fabinho and Hendo are obvious starters with many saying Elliott will come in but Hendo likes that right side and so does Elliott so to me Keita will come in. Elliot will play but I don't think he'll start often.

    The weakness is left side of the midfield 3 so is Carvalho the answer there?

    Jones is important but just hasn't clicked and needs to step up.

    Milner can come off the bench and have an influence but he's not got the legs for consecutive games.

    That's a whole lot of options so are we really going to buy? I just don't see it, we'll wait and get Bellingham in the Summer.
     
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  2. InBiscanWeTrust

    InBiscanWeTrust Rome, London, Paris, Rome, Istanbul, Madrid
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    I think problem with our midfield is that there is a gap in ages. Much like we had with forward last 2 years ago, they’re all similar age. This was great during title winning year as they were mid-late 20s. In their prime etc.

    3 years on and they’re all now in 30s which isn’t a huge problem but does mean that they will need replacing soon. In similar way we’ve done with forwards im sure we’ll look to do with midfield. We brought in Jota at 23/24. Diaz at next year. Now Nunez at 23.

    our current midfield options after the front 3 are Jones at 21, Elliott at 19 and Carvalho at 19 (albeit remains to be seen if he’s midfield or wing).

    We don’t have anyone in that 22-25 age range where they are just approaching their prime.

    Obvious links with Bellingham who is only 19 but far more experienced. Tchoumeni was 22. So seems we are targeting players in that early 20 age group. Seems like this summer was about refreshing that front line (diaz and Nunez) and I’d imagine next summer will be a midfield refresh (ox, Milner, Keita) all probably leaving.

    whether injuries brings forwards those plans is another question though, clearly club willing to do that as did it with diaz. But already spent a lot this summer and we have large numbers in midfield so bringing in another now before we shift some players brings its own issues.
     
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  3. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

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    I think Milner and Keita will be used more than the younger lads but also hope that despite their age Elliott and Carvalho can play themselves into the team.

    I agree on what you're saying though a 25-28 year old who isn't injury prone (Keita) would be a life saver right now. Need those kids to step up.
     
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  4. moreinjuredthanowen

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    IMO ITS TIME.

    yes its time for trent to stop pretending to be a full back and just admit he's no interest in defending and lets just get Trent in that midfield where he can jog about not tracking back to better effect.

    seriously though the age gap is one thing but its more about consistency.

    Ox - sick note. sorry to the lad, it happened on duty for us in the CL but since that injury he's not able to get back.
    Keita - perma sick note. if not one thing its another and for me the intensity is nowhere near where it needs to be, one paced and imo can't play 2 in a row either.

    down to 6 already here

    thiago - regular injuries. all the same sort of soft muscle stuff that he gets fit for 10 in a row and is great then gone for 5.
    Henderson - fairly regular injuries as well.

    now i'm down to 4.

    Milner. aged... gets injuries too.
    Jones- kid, no conistency.

    oh oh....

    i eman its fairly clear that while klopp might be more than satisfied with people its a weak link area.

    it will be henderson kieta fabinho next weekend imo.
     
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  5. Nozzer

    Nozzer Well-Known Member

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    If Keita and Ox were the players the transfer committee thought/hoped they would be, we wouldn't be having this conversation. They were the ones who (together with Fabinho) were supposed to be our new midfield 4 or so years ago. As good as our recruitment has been, that's nearly £100 million of midfield that overall hasn't really worked out.
     
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  6. Nozzer

    Nozzer Well-Known Member

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    To answer the OP, unless Keita or Ox go (and no-one wants them), I can't see anyone too major coming in unless they're a long-term target brought forward.
     
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  7. InBiscanWeTrust

    InBiscanWeTrust Rome, London, Paris, Rome, Istanbul, Madrid
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    I don’t think klopp is satisfied. I don’t think he’s very satisfied and that’s what makes him brilliant manager. Beat managers always looking to improve and given we were strongly linked to some midfielders he clearly knows it’s an area that can be improved. In same way every department can be, but he’s not going to come out and state it.

    he’s clearly said we have numbers there, and I think we want to move people on before bringing people in.

    don’t forget what makes this team brilliant is the team spirit behind it. You rarely hear people moaning, causing issues etc. that’s in part by everyone feeling part of the squad.

    if you suddenly sign another midfielder when (although some are injured) you already have 8 central midfielders at the club suddenly you might start causing issues. It’s why I think we’ll move on ox Milner and maybe Keita at end of season and bring 1, maybe 2 more in the summer (or Jan if we can move people then).
     
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  8. moreinjuredthanowen

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    I think that's probably a vary fair assessment of the situation. Ox takes care of himself at end of season and Keita just about does as well. (though talk of new contract was out there for him)
     
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  9. jaffaklopp

    jaffaklopp Well-Known Member

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    Our best midfield 3 isn't good enough as it is. They don't work as hard as the old Milner, Henderson, Gini trio. They are all pretty injru prone. They can be good on their day, but I don't think the talent is all there either, mainly for Henderson and Thiago who can go missing in games.

    Fabinho is the only one I would certainly start with, but then he doesn't even have a back up.

    It's been a problem for years and it's only got worse.
     
    #9
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  10. InBiscanWeTrust

    InBiscanWeTrust Rome, London, Paris, Rome, Istanbul, Madrid
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    Think that’s harsh. Fab does a lot of work in midfield covering on his own. Thiagos quality is unquestioned. I think maybe forgetting just how good he was the second half of last season. Absolutely bosses the midfield.

    Saturday they were all a bit meh. But it’s 1 game against a pumped up Fulham side who ran and worked very hard. Think to write the whole midfield off after 1 game is bit knee jerk.

    Remmeber this was the midfield that got us to within a point of the title. 2 cup wins and a CL final. They don’t go bad after 6 weeks off.
     
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  11. johnsonsbaby

    johnsonsbaby Well-Known Member

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    Rumoured that Ward went to Lisbon yesterday <whistle>
     
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  12. moreinjuredthanowen

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    the other thing to remember is that fulham have the smallest pitch of any i nthe prem. Its even smaller than ours.

    Ours is 101 x 68 metres.
    Fulams is 100 x 65meters.
    Cheslea is 103x67m

    the "standard" UEFA size is 105x68. Which is what utd or arsenal or spurs are.

    IMO we got treated to a dose of our own medicine with a high press (in parts) that took advantage of a narrow pitch to lock in a 3 man front press on vvd and matip and really our side never got to grips with it til fulham sat off. Its really that simply, narrower pitch enables them to close space and be able to push players up without compromising their line.

    We didn't see a CM really sit in very much and we failed totally to work the ball down the lines. Diaz came central too much so robbo had no out ball and salah and trent just back passed so we were playing too centrally into a crowd of fulham players so thiago, henderson and firmino were totally ineffective. I view this as a tactical failure as well as a failure of readiness.

    In the first minute matip was caught dawdling on the ball, there was no real reaction to that at all, we didn't expect the fulham press and had no plan B imo.

    the funny thing is the minute nunez came on fulham fell into panic. they suddenly couldn't just push up as a line as someone was running behind them and it caused mayhem. Tactically we might have actually got it very wrong playing bobby in that pitch size against a team who wanted to press up. Running behind was what we needed. We tried it but a lot of balls over the top were aimless first half.

    I am fairly certain the challenge v palace will be radically different. I expect a lot of counter running and a tall physical side but i do not see Vieira pressing up on us at all. 70% possession but real danger on the counter monday night. totally different challenge.
     
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  13. moreinjuredthanowen

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    He does seem to have a nasty habit of focusing only on where he worked before. We need a bit more of a global reach.
     
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  14. organic red

    organic red Well-Known Member

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    Nunes ;)
     
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  15. moreinjuredthanowen

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    I made that rumour up 2 months ago.

    as in we are not actually interested but its done the rounds several times since.


    post: 15905733, transfer rumour thread june 14.
     
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  16. organic red

    organic red Well-Known Member

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    Not 'on the list' then?
     
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  17. moreinjuredthanowen

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    no i just made it up at that point given ward was hot for portugese league and the player was being touted round.

    the issue here is theres stories swirling about him "rejecting" big money offers form wolves waiting for us.

    they only issue is that was the case all the way back in may/june as well and wolves have proven their are stoney broke since and hare after a different player as well., so if one side of the story is balls it only stands to reason the other side may well be too.


    its like the leory sane stuff.
     
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  18. johnsonsbaby

    johnsonsbaby Well-Known Member

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    Maybe ;)

    He's asked to leave Sporting, wants to come to PL but turned down offers as he's waiting for Liverpool ........... allegedly.
     
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  19. Red Potato

    Red Potato Well-Known Member

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    I thought we needed a midfielder before the injuries.

    Unlike attack and defence, it's obvious our midfield needs some work done to it. Even when everyone is fit, it's not ideal. We've got kids, who aren't quite the right level. We have a couple of peak performers and then a couple of older players who are still good but not for 90 mins in consecutive games. Then we've got not good enough players like Keira, Ox, and Jones to make up the numbers.

    Our midfield is clearly our weakest part of our team to me. If injuries force Klopp to address that and bring in quality, so be it. I'd rather not have injuries and Id rather this be done three months ago, but whatever it takes to get a decent midfield on par with the rest of the team.
     
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  20. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Boom!
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    Don't see us signing anyone else this window...
    - we usually sign players early in the window to get then integrated
    - we won't panic
    - we need others (particularly Ox) to move on first

    ...I think this is the squad now until next summer.
     
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