The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tue 16th July)

Discussion in 'Leeds United' started by ellandback, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member
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    Good Morning. It's Tuesday 16th July, and here are the Leeds Utd headlines


    Villa's desperate last ditch attempt to sign Phillips

    In a desperate bid to try to land Kalvin Phillips, Villa supremo Dean Smith has offered Leeds the choice of three players plus cash. It is understood that Connor Hourihane, Henri Lansbury and James Bree are all surplus to requirements at Villa Park, and Leeds can take their pick from all three!
    Would any other these players improve our starting XI? If Villa were to offer 20m and the pick from the three listed above, would you be tempted to sell?
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    Defiant Bielsa stays in Leeds

    Whilst the Leeds players jetted off to Australia, Bielsa decided to stay in Leeds to ensure that new signings and late arrivals from international duty are brought up to speed! Well, that's the official line anyway!!!!!

    Bielsa even had time to take in a pre-season friendly at Valley Parade where Bradford were taking on Liverpool, and guess what? Bielsa bumped in Klopp - What are the chances?
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    Whelan, Ryan Kent was on the agenda

    According to Leeds Soccer pundit Noel Whelan, Ryan Kent was on the agenda!

    “Bielsa was probably at Bradford looking at Ryan Kent,”
    “There’s no reason for him to go there rather than Australia unless it was beneficial for him.
    “Ryan Kent has been spoken about before. I think Bielsa has met with Jurgen Klopp after the game.
    “If there is interest and conversations going on it, it is worth talking with his manager.
    “There’s no harm in building up a rapport with Klopp.
    “I would love to have Kent at Leeds next season. He is a fantastic young player who did really well at Rangers last season.
    “Stevie G would love to keep him but if we can can get him, he would be a brilliant signing.
    “He can play wide, number 10, has pace, strength, can run at defenders, and score and create goals. He’s a really exciting young prospect.”
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    LUFC Director coded message why Jansson was sold

    Leeds Executive Director Paul Bell who leads the off-field business side for the Whites has been in Perth mingling, and speaking to Leeds fans regarding the recent sales of Clarke and Jansson.

    “There’s a reasonable answer to all of this. You look at the Championship now and Financial Fair Play, or Profitability and Sustainability as it’s now called, has been talked about, talked about, talked about,” he said.

    “Last year, for the first time, you saw the rules have teeth. You saw Birmingham [City] cheat the rules, bust the bank and they had a horrendous year the year before last, spent way above their means and you saw they got a nine-point penalty.

    “That’s really put into focus all Championship clubs now, this three-year rolling loss limit of £39m is a genuine deterrent from breaking the rules.
    “You’ve seen recently the clubs looking at doing different things to try and ensure they don’t break the rules.

    “It’s well documented Derby [County] sold their stadium, Aston Villa, Sheffield Wednesday, their accounts came out this week and they’ve made £38m profit on the sale of Hillsborough.”

    “People talk about it and people have scant disregard for it, but we have to be very mindful there are a set of regulations in place we have to adhere to because we can’t run the risk of having point deductions, particularly when we’re chasing the dream of the Premier League.

    “Imagine if that had happened to us this year, so close and to get nine points taken off.

    “By the time it went to the tribunal it didn’t happen until April, but these are real things we need to be mindful of.”

    “We as a club, in terms of revenue, just to give you some kind of barometer, we did over £40m worth of turnover,” he said.

    “Sheffield Wednesday’s latest accounts show they turned over £25m. I’m just using that as a barometer and example.

    “People often put Sheffield Wednesday and Leeds into the same sort of bracket: big clubs in Yorkshire.

    “We’re doing extremely well and we look at all of our revenue streams over the last 12 months and they’re all fantastic.

    “We’ve got record season ticket numbers, we’ve got record hospitality numbers, last year we sold 72,000 replica shirts.

    “It’s phenomenal, honestly it’s phenomenal and when we look at the club, it’s ready for the Premier League.”
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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  2. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Morning all :emoticon-0148-yes:

    Still waiting news of players going out and its Anita has bought himself out of his contract so that he can take up a Greek offer.

    Lots being read into Bielsa and Australia and the meeting with Klopp. If Ryan Kent comes it'll be great because he can play wide or No10 and scores goals from anywhere, but believe it when you see it because last week Klopp said Kent wasn't going out on loan and would be fighting for his place?

    Not bothered about Villa so not commenting

    Wonder who is going to the Wendies as manager now that Bruce has shafted them
     
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  3. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member
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    Morning all

    Hourihane - Smith was full of praise for him just a couple of days ago saying how he was top of the Villa goals assist table and deserves his new contract which was also signed just two days ago so I don’t believe the Villa story.

    Kent would be good.
     
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  4. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Sam Byram dumped by WHU for only £750k and Norwich sign him. Cant say I'm bothered and can't be arsed to wish him luck because he left Leeds too soon and did it for cash but has flopped and even not good enough for a failing Forest on loan last season.
     
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  5. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone see the video clip doing the rounds? Players taking it in turns to take free kicks over a wall and young Bogusz was last man who bent the ball round the wall and in off the post completely beating Miazek all ends up. The players and staff were in awe and whooping like mad.

     
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  6. KIO

    KIO Well-Known Member

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    If you’re not bothered why mention it? ;)
     
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  7. Gessa

    Gessa Well-Known Member

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    So if clubs adhere to the ffp rules honestly then they are being penalised unfairly by having to sell a player or 2 each year to fit the criteria, so instead of being able to build from within, this is being destoyed by having to sell. Makes no sense to me.

    Villa can do one, wouldn't be happy with any of those players, but think it's paper talk anyway.

    Not bothered about Kent, too many step overs, not enough substance for me.
     
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  8. MIGHTY

    MIGHTY Del-Boy

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    Bielsa not walked yet ?

    Cant be long now, I kinda feel sorry for him poor fooker <wah>
     
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  9. Infidel

    Infidel Well-Known Member

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    TBH Mighty I feel sorry for you, you have to visit us to find someone to talk to or trying your WUM tactics, ya poor fkr.:1980_boogie_down:<laugh>
     
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  10. MIGHTY

    MIGHTY Del-Boy

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    Hmmm you think Bielsa leaving is just a wum we shall see <ok>
     
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  11. stonkin

    stonkin Well-Known Member

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    Not really a wum as he'll obviously leave at some point in time. I expect better from someone of your renowned quality:grin:
     
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  12. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Journo's are saying that we would have spent more if we could have got rid of 11 players that are still on the books. I will list them and put my own notes with those that I'm aware of:

    1. Sacko - A deal is being done that should allow him to sign for a Turkish club this week. He will need to pay towards getting his contract with us terminated.
    2. Anita - Exactly the same as Sacko above as both have another year on their contracts so need to pay towards termination. he has a Greek club lined up.
    3. Cibicki - Should now be back in Leeds as his loan period ended last week. Elfsborg want him so depends if they can afford him, but other options too.
    4. Saiz - If he hasn't sorted himself a new club this week he is back in Leeds training on his own until he buys out his contract.
    5. O'Kane - ?
    6. Pearce - We are looking to sell him maybe even this week?
    7. LDB - Should be gone this week or next at latest. Another negotiating his contract termination.
    8. Oriol Rey - Brilliant player bring him back?
    9. Bouy - ?
    10. Ideguchi - He is training with Osaka back in Japan and should sign for them once transfer finalised.
    11. Nessy - ?
    There is actually more than these 11 if the journos had done their jobs. Check out the first post in the transfer sticky above.
     
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  13. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    Is it just me that doesn't get this 'coded message' from Paul Bell? Is he saying that we had to sell Jansson to make FFP? If not, what other bloody coded message is it that we're talking about, 'cos I don't get it.

    Was also thinking about FFP in general.....

    Take Birmingham as an example. They got deducted 9 points this season. I don't know the exact figures involved with them, other than they went over the £39m 3-year limit.

    For the sake of illustration, let's say their losses were £5m, £10m, & £30m, meaning they totalled £45m over the 3 years.

    Now let's move on to 2019/20. Does it mean that even though they've been punished in 2018/19, that they're going to get punished again, unless they make a profit of £1m+? The £10m & £30m would still add up to £40m before the 2019/20 figures are taken into consideration. So even if they broke even, they'd still have an FFP total of £10m + £30m + £0 = £40m.

    Or ..... does the fact that they've been punished in 2018/19 mean that they start from scratch in 2019/20, pretending the outstanding £40m debt doesn't exist?

    Anyone know how it works?
     
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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  14. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member
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    <yikes>-<yikes>--<yikes>-<yikes>-<yikes>-<yikes>-<yikes>-<yikes>

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  15. 2 pennth

    2 pennth Well-Known Member

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    Dont be daft the EFL don't know how it works so how the hell do you expect us to:emoticon-0148-yes:
     
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  16. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Its double bent because its now no longer called FFFP rules it all revolves around turnover and P&L and thats the reason why most Championship clubs are doing no biz and crapping it. If you go back to what the Director said in Perth he said Sheffield Wednesday in the eyes of the EFL are classed as the same size club as Leeds Utd yet they have a turnover of circa £24m whereas the work Radz and Co have sorted out loads and actually turned over £40m+. I estimate that once the deals which are on the table right now are completed we will have sold players for close on £20m this month and still have players to get rid of. We are nowhere near breaking any rules but suggest you look at Mike Thorntons web site or his posts on social media. Mike really does understand the new rules and can explain facts and where we are now. The clarke deal sorted us but the rest have made sure we can do serious damage in the market..... but when?
     
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  17. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    #17
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  18. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    So from that, do we surmise we have been given the 'soft sanction', which is the reason we keep selling off one of the better players each year?
     
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  19. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    On a turnover of £40m we made a loss of £14m so sold Clarke..
    If we hadn't have sold Clarke or anyone else we would have been circa £23m down this year
     
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  20. Morbid_White

    Morbid_White Well-Known Member

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    That wasn't my interpretation of the article LoL, although I do agree that FFP is forcing us to sell players to keep us within those limits.

    I think we are close to failing or have failed Test 2, but have a sufficient plan that EFL have not deemed it necessary to apply any sort of soft sanction.

    More details on my reasoning below, for anyone who can be bothered to read my ramblings :)

    Reason I don't think we are under any sort of soft sanction etc, is that if the first part of that sanction is to agree a budget that the club would stick to, I don't think we would have been able to agree the Costa deal, as I'm sure the EFL wouldn't accept the "we're going to get promoted to the Premier League" as a valid option for our funding.

    Given that our two previous seasons (before the 2018/19 season) we have total losses of 3.3m ( and that takes into account the 11m investment from the 49's, which covered the 10m more we spent on transfers than received), and that prior to the start of the season we had spent 4.5m more on transfer fees than we received and also the hiring of Bielsa and his staff, means that our losses before any day to day activity would be around 11m. If we presume that our day to day losses(ie salaries, match day income etc) for the season just finished is around the same as the previous season (meaning a total loss for season just finished of approx 11.8m), then this puts our total losses at the time we underwent Test 2 at around 15.3m, and thus we would fail that.

    So the EFL come to us and say ok you have failed Test 2 of FFP, what is your plan. Your losses for season 2019/2020 are going to be approx 7.5m if nothing changes from the previous years ( this is 3m for Bielsa and his staff and 4.3m more expenditure than income), this will bring your total losses to approx 23m by the end of next season.

    The club then says it intends to move on a number of fringe players, thus reducing day to day costs, and also possibly bringing in some income, and also that there has been numerous interest shown in one of our more valuable players, and that they expect to come to an agreement where that player is sold. Thus we sell Jack Clarke for 10m and this immediately means that if nothing else changes we actually pass Test 2, when it would be applied in around March 2020, as our losses for the two previous seasons and ongoing season would be approx 13m.

    The sale of fringe players would probably be sufficient to cover the loan fee of 2m for Costa, but if we were under any sort of "soft sanction", then the ELF would be immediately saying where is this other 13m coming from at the end of the season. Now obviously the Jansson sale improves the situation, but I still doubt it would be enough to convince the EFL that we would be in a position to agree to the spending of 13m on a player as our losses would be back to 21m, and we would be having the same conversation with the EFL again, only this time, I'd expect they would take more convincing.

    So I surmise that at the time of the "you've failed Test 2 meeting with the EFL" the Clarke transfer had already been agreed between us and Spurs, thus negating any further interference from the EFL regarding FFP, which meant we were in a position to then go agree the Costa deal unhindered.

    How do we intend to fund the Costa deal, then obviously we intend to win promotion or there is further investment coming from elsewhere

     
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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019

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