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The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 17th November)

Discussion in 'Leeds United' started by ellandback, Nov 17, 2022.

  1. wakeybreakyheart

    wakeybreakyheart Well-Known Member

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    Pascal does not have the pace to be a top player. I dispute these valuations on these sites.
     
    #21
  2. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Bogusz is on his way back from an ACL not fully fit yet. The Spaniards want him and are doing a deal with Vic which means 50% sell on for Leeds. His present club anticipate him being fully fit not long after the WC and expect to sell him on in the Summer. This kid was probably Bielsa biggest mistake. For some reason he seems to have upset Bielsa so sent out on loan. The same happening with Mujica who has now turned into the player we thought we bought, but again we get 50%. Bogusz by the way is wanted in Germany, Poland, Spain and Italy…
     
    #22
  3. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    Just like every other club.

    Waiting for Orta to get the blame for their failures too ..... <doh>
     
    #23
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  4. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough doc if you have the inside track on him. Recall him doing his acl think average recovery is about 9 months these days so sounds about right. Whatever the interest in him, I don’t envisage a killing but hey we’ll see and every little helps.
     
    #24
  5. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    yeh they’re pony… just an algorithm based on age appearances previous values etc.

    I have no idea what struijk would be worth
     
    #25
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  6. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    think wakey just means that people like to talk up the profitability of players based on paid x sold for y. So y-x = profit/loss.

    Reality is agents fees, wages, share of running costs of academy (I.e they’re taking up a place someone else would have) - and the Leeds academy costs a fair bit to run. All these things impact profit/loss.

    It’s the few big successes, plus a few more that do ok, that cover the inevitable larger number who fall by the wayside.
     
    #26
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  7. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    Not aimed at Wakey, btw - more of a generalised pop.

    I'm simply saying that EVERY club has failures - loads of them, but I rarely see their DoF getting slaughtered in the press for each & every failure, like Orta is. Relentlessly.

    The thought also pulls up an interesting muse - what if our Academy had a 100% success rate every year? How the Hell would you manage that? You'd need a dedicated phalanx of accountants for them alone.
     
    #27
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  8. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough mate but I only use the lowest valuations as they are never right, but by using the lower number you get a good idea. As an example Rafa Mujica cost us nothing and is valued at only £600k as hes only recently started to fulfill his potential but that means we get £300k cash. Bogusz even though been out for 9 months was a player we spent £50k on is now worth £1.5m so we will get £750k and even if Struijk isn’t worth £20m he’s deffo worth way over £10m so again we’ll worth it :emoticon-0148-yes:
     
    #28
  9. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    I think the way Leeds and Orta have brought in young talent and the deals negotiated for any talent that doesn’t work out means we get a big portion of future sell ons is really good business simply because as we all know not every kid works out and some excel at an older age. It means some EFL clubs can tap into young talent for next to nothing but accept that if and when the kid comes good and they sell that they will be giving away up to half of the fee. It means they get talent through the door that they wouldn’t get
     
    #29
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  10. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    my beef with orta was that first year…trying the ‘Seville model’ too early when we had short term needs for the first team. I understand it because Cellino had killed the academy… but we ended up with a stack of academy punts plus a bunch of first team squad members not ready for the champ. It was still stupid in my opinion (and I may have mentioned it occasionally at the time and subsequently <laugh>). Meanwhile we skimped on managers and failed to add quality to the first team. It’s like ‘I have a business model and I’m going to use it’ irrespective of circumstances.

    But to his credit he then helped get bielsa… a punt but a very successful one. And since then, he’s had hits and misses in the transfer market for the first team, as do most DOFs… but I think he’s done a decent job in terms of scouting young talent for the 21s and more recently younger talent for the first team… perhaps with Jesse’s help.
     
    #30
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  11. FORZA LEEDS

    FORZA LEEDS Well-Known Member

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    Orta has a blind spot when it comes to LB’s. Hasn’t identified a single one of any quality in all his time here.

    Seems strange. All he’s come up with are LDB and Firpo.
     
    #31
  12. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    Cameron Borthwick Jackson <cheers> :emoticon-0101-sadsm

    he would probably claim alioski - even if he bought him as a winger

    I guess we made a few quid on Leif Davis
     
    #32
  13. FORZA LEEDS

    FORZA LEEDS Well-Known Member

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    Could’ve saved £12m by keeping Davis and not buying Firpo.

    There’s no way Davis is worse <doh>
     
    #33
  14. FORZA LEEDS

    FORZA LEEDS Well-Known Member

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    Little Willy got some action last night.
     
    #34
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  15. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    … but it was all over in a few minutes

    Anyway we’re happy for you mate, but maybe more information than we needed
     
    #35
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  16. FORZA LEEDS

    FORZA LEEDS Well-Known Member

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    <laugh> 15 minutes actually :emoticon-0165-muscl
     
    #36
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  17. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Find it amazing that Orta still hasn’t signed a LB even for the academy. Last season in the failed U23 season we used a mix of Davies, Drameh, Hjelde and then settled for converting McCarron to a LB oh and we tried McKinstry. However we know Vic has tried to get players like Gvardiol before anyone had heard of him, he is now one of the hottest properties in Europe with Man City Chelsea, Liverpool, Milan…….. and more chasing him. Orta wanted him when he was only 17yo but even though his club agreed the deal Gvardiol wanted to learn more before coming to England, he then went to Germany and now on his way to England in the summer. But why end up with just Firpo from his long list, why nobody else last January or this Summer? Still no LB anywhere in the club?
     
    #37
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  18. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    Yeh read an article recently about gvardiol doc… where he talked about how close he was to coming.

    He’s one of those ‘is he a left back is he a centreback’

    Either way lots of big names sniffing at him for top dollar.
     
    #38
  19. Marcos Barber

    Marcos Barber Well-Known Member

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    One of the guys that works for me is an Ipswich fan and took his daughter to the home game against Cheltenham on Saturday. Said Davis was MOTM and easily the stand out player on the pitch. Obviously there is a big jump from League 1 to Premier League but, maybe, he will get back up to at least Championship level?
     
    #39
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  20. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Many asked why Bielsa spent time working on “Very Good Davies” maybe he saw a player in there:emoticon-0148-yes:
     
    #40
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