The Irish Challengers

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woolcombe-folly007

woolcombe-folly007

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2011
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East Sussex
Is it just me, but has their been a rapid decline in the irish challengers to us british in chasing the titles, especially the chasers! The Irish have Willie Mullins as thier number 1 trainer, we have Henderson and Nicholls. Yes they may have the top hurdler in The Hurricane. But thier chasing prospects are very disappointing- Their top one imo has to be Sizing Europe/ Big Zeb compared to ours Long Run, Kauto Star. Yes they maybe the top 2 in the betting in the QM chase and to challenge the irish 2 in the race we got Finans Rainbow & maybe Kauto Stone- Yes Sizing Europe was clearly the better horse of Kauto stone in the tingle creek, but they were early days for the young horse and he will just keep getting better. Finans Rainbow will definately give those two a run for thier money and Henderson will have him fit and raring to go come 14th March! As mentioned they may have the favourtie for the CH i(if he turns up) but to the british challengers are piling up behind him in Zarkandar, Spirit Son & Binocular compared to thiers Thousand Stars, Unaccompanied it will be a intriguing race if the Hurricane turns up which he probably will we may see a gust of wind climbing the hill and him retaining his title but would be intresting if he was to meet the #1 hurdler in the world in Big Bucks (buts that for another thread) Then we come to the Gold Cup, this disapoints me the most maybe 2 of the top 10 in the betting are from Irish Trainers in Synchronised (who does stand a slight chance but I think he maybe a little to slow for the top horses and jessies dream who I know nothing about. If you look back to last few years festivals from the last 11 years only 1 irish trainer has won the Gold cup that was in 2006 in Mouse Morris & War of Attriton and to me that run does not look like ending anytime soon Yes Willie Mullins won the festivals top trainer award last year and he proably is one of the top trainers and they got a record number of wins at last years festivals with the tricolour making a staggering 13 appearances in the winner’s enclosure but thier chasing prospects are no way as hot as thier hurdlers
 
Hi Wooley.

The decline in Irish trained 'chase winners is simply because we buy anything that wins a maiden point and fly it under our flag reducing the amount of home grown Irish chasers.

Btw,Kicking King was Irish trained and won the CGC in 2005 trained by Tom Taaffe.

Also Finians Rainbow,who you allude to,is an Irish PTP import and but for Michael Buckleys intervention would be most likely trained there.

In short the likes of Denman,Imperial Commander,Mr Mulligan,recent Gold Cup winners,and indeed many more,were all purchased in Ireland from the PTP field and would have progressed just as well over there under Irish handling no doubt.

In fact most our best NH horses have traditionally come from Ireland.France latterly has become very popular also,maybe thats why we see so few French festival raiders now...their talent is getting prematurely hoovered as well!

It's merely a question of cash...like most things in life.
 
Not to detract away from whatever issues exist (and the driver behind the OP), but the Irish managed 13 winners at the festival last year including the Neptune, RSA, Champion Chase and Champion Hurdle - even in the heyday of Istabraq they would rarely manage more than a handful though of course there were far less opportunities.
I think the Gold Cup record is a little distorted given the dominance of Nichols with the big 2 and prior to that Best Mate reeling off a hatrick.
Looks like Trouble and Mr Mulligan can't have been that long ago, post foot and mouth ?
 
Interesting thread and the two answers above are great insights.


All I would say is that whilst the 'Brits' may look in pole position on paper, I would never ever write them off. They had a superb festival last year, and IMO we will soon see a crop of Giggingstown stud colours in Cheltenham winning enclosures.

I dont think they have totally played their hand yet, either.


But smashing thread and the point about French raiders above really does make you think about the talent pool.
 
As the Irish have the favourite in two of the main four championship races and the second and third favourites to Big Bucks in the World Hurdle I think we are looking at the relative weakness of their Gold Cup challenge. In the Champion Hurdle their are other Irish trained horses worth considering, as is the case in the Champion Chase. They also have entries which are favourite or close up in the betting in the Ryanair and the championship novice events. We can also be sure that they will have their fair share of handicap winners. We therefore return to their apparent weakness in the staying chase division and this is based on one race where Synchronised easily beat their supposed two main contenders. I am not saying they are world beaters on a par with Kauto Star and Long Run but we have not seen Jessie's Dream this season and Quel Esprit seems to have regained it's confidence at jumping; I accept that QE's races have not been at the highest grade.

Let's wait until mid to late February when most of the trials in both England and Ireland have passed before writing off the green, white and gold challenge!
 
Interesting that so many handicaps are won by the Irish given their comments on the handicapping system.
Some trainers believed the 'capper was being unfairly harsh a year or two ago, I remember comments by Mouse Morris, Willie Mullins and Charlie Swann who virtually claimed 'fix' when the weights came out...
 
Cyc I think I've solved the puzzle of the mysterious + (I'm seeing it here after Heisenburg) - doesn't it mean some guests are viewing the thread?
 
I think the Irish challenge is as strong as ever, with the exception of the Gold Cup. With the emergence of Gigginstown Stud and looking at some of their emerging talent in the novice chase division, I think this is only a temporary blip.
 
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