New article on the pafc website showing latest artistic impressions of the stadium when completed. A representation of the finished ground packed for an evening game and what is the occasion? A thrilling Champions League encounter as the resurgent Greens batter Barcelona to overcome a 2 goal deficit from the first leg to set up a thrilling all English final against big spenders Chelsea.... NOPE A Premier League double pointer as Plymouth move 4 points clear of Man Utd, at the top of the league with 2 to play, in a 7 goal thriller (6-1 to Argyle obviously).......NOPE or a clash with local rivals Exeter and Wotton taking a corner....COULD BE It may be an artistic impression but on a certain level I think it shows the true ambition and belief in the club, seriously that is the best they can dream of? Talk about shooting for the stars!!! Not sure how long this planned development will take but if Wotton is still playing we can save a few quid in transport with his bus pass. PS Mr Brent if we are still battling with local rivals Exeter in a few seasons you may want to add a few more empty seats to your design!!!!!
The amount of bulls*** being spouted from Akernon is quite remarkable. You would think that everyone was enthralled with the grand gift we are being handed. Truth is that very very few think it's any good and the majority who post online think it shows the ambition of Brent which is zero. But spin it a bit and somehow the local press think we all love it and can't wait. The Herald seem to do a lot of talking with Akernon and Brent but somehow miss chats with AFT and others. My guess is that we will get exactly what is on offer no matter how many people complain and it won't move Brent one inch.
I'm very pleased we're getting a new stand for nothing and think that the gainsayers are a bunch of deluded halfwits. Next task: start popularity poll thread.
You are in a minority of around half a dozen then notdistant. What gets me is that the Herald seem to ignore letters and statements that says anything against this development. Getting the ground finished, I would argue with the free bit, is what everyone wants which is the only true thing they say. What it contains, how it is being done, the lack of appropriate size, Brent's capital gain without the football getting much is just simply ignored when it comes to supporters opinion. The Herald should remember that these people are their customers not Brent. If they have no regard for their readership then as a supposed newspaper they are way off the mark. As I said, I think that we will get exactly what it already says on the tin and not one jot more. The "customers" who have supported the club through thin and thinner will eventually have their say and I think Brent will lose a lot of those customers. I don't think Brent gives a flying fig one way or the other. I think this is his true colours and has been his intention all along. The mild mannered public schoolboy who looks like Harry Potter is indeed a true baddy under it all and I think the super fans who backed him at the start will rue the day when they eventually wake up and their club has gone. For me he is a worse option than Administration and no better than a vulture.
Sensible he is no better than the crooks that got us into the admin in the first place, he got it free or cheap and now is set to make a fortune.. he will let the club die..
Difficult concept Joe - it's free in that the club isn't having to find the money to build it, correct me if I'm wrong. What do people think is appropriate then Sensible? A main stand the same size as Old Trafford? It would stand half empty 99% of the time and give the whole place that tumbeleweed look. Better a bright modern stand that's largely full, even with the same number of people. The real problem is I think is that the people of Plymouth hate to see anyone make money even by providing the city with facilities which are much needed if it's not to fall even further behind Exeter. Yes, Exeter. John Lewis already there, Ikea on the way, Met office, operational airport with a major UK airline operation, top level rugby, steaming ahead.
Smoke screens notdistant. This has got nothing to do with falling behind other places. Take one thing you mention which is operational airport. Plymouth doesn't need an airport with one only 40 minutes away. London doesn't really have one in it's heart and is served by airports only 40 minutes away and it's good enough for them. Why would Devon need 2. People are not asking for Old Trafford facilities. They are asking for a stand that gives an overall capacity of 20,000 or slightly above. The expansion possibilities are simply not there or severely restricted with the other building being crammed in the site. The reason it is being crammed in is to maximise the money made by Brent. The content of the stand is also not for the club. Some yes but by no means all as was implied originally. The devil is in the detail and it isn't what was muted at the start. What people want is for the club to show some ambition at the very least. 17000 with little opportunity to ever expand it is showing league one at best. Don't give me this free thing or that it is illegal to tie something into the bribe of a stand that isn't conected. I do not believe it doesn't happen for one minute. The ice rink for example is being moved from the city centre area. Why? Simple really, it allows the land to be used for another Brent Hotel and a further development opportunity. The other false premise is that people don't like others making money. Nobody denies that Brent was always going to make some and nobody I know or have read is against that as a concept. It is the selling the club short and raking in more than is needed without Argyle benefiting properly or being anywhere on his to do list yet making the cash on the back of it. If he gave the club it's proper consideration and also made cash then people would not be against this. Please do not dress it up as envy.
It's got to be either envy or stupidity Sensible. The current grandstand is a disgrace and the chances of the club being able to finance a replacement from its own means are less than zero - especially if fans are concerned that club funds could be diverted away from the squad. That would certainly be the case if the club had to finance the stand itself. When we're getting 17,000 per game and there's a waiting list for tickets, let me know and I'll think again.
By then it will be too late notdistant because 17000 is all we would ever be able to get in. If Brent's comments at the outset are to be believed, which was "this club should be playing in the Championship and it is my aim to take them there", then 17000 doesn't even show committment to get that far. Again. nobody is saying we could fill 20000+ now or anywhere near it. The rest of my post above is the dissention. If Brent doesn't show that he truely believes in the product then why would the floating voters. I also think that compared with the existing stand the new proposal looks much better along with the majority of others. But it's not about it looking pretty.
I still can't see how its FREE, we the supporters will pay for it, it the long run. correct me if i am wrong. As for falling behind Exeter, well let them have it.. Its not to far for us to go if we want use shops but i tend to go to Bristol or Birmingham. I have just looked at the proposal and i do think they look good and so does the surroundings, but will it ever happen? When we get the grandstand are they re building all the changing facilities and the whole side? as i have not even looked at it to be honest.. but it does need doing as it looks terrible.
I haven't gone into the plans in any detail either joe and to be honest I can't be bothered. I believe the corners are to be left undone but the whole thing will join up. Everyone I know is of the opinion it all needs doing and that has never really been in dispute. It's the how it's done bit and what the club gets. Lest we forget also, there is segregation to be taken into account which actually gives us less than 17000 capacity. Take another 500 off that for the section they have to leave empty.
As a matter of interest, the following Championship clubs all had average attendances below 17,000 last year: Birmingham City Blackburn Huddersfield Watford Blackpool Barnsley Middlesborough Millwall Burnley I haven't counted the relegated ones... Those promoted from League have ground capacities of: Doncaster - 15,000 Bournemouth - 10,000 Yeovil - 10,000
But which one of those has a NEW ground or stand notdistant? If they were to build one would they only build it to take 17000? You know they wouldn't don't you. This is it for Argyle. There is no future chance at Home Park to do much about it ever once all these other things are built around it. Of the list that had less than 17000 average, how many of them have a capacity of only that? If they got into the premiership which is what every club strives for or should, how many would have gates in excess of 17000? All of them with perhaps the exception of Blackpool.
So if i am correct, once this grandstand has been built? there is no room for adding to it your saying Sensible? if so that will not be no good for the future, free or not.. As everyone knows that the fans will come for the championship and if we do get to the prem( can't see that under harry Potter) it will be at least 30k needed surely? Brent is seeing us off, as once he has his ice rink and the other crap.. he will not give a toss about Pafc.. Think i heard this before It all looks very nice on the site and i am sure it will be, but why is he not building a bigger stand? more shops?
They are insisting there is scope for increasing the capacity. However, the best estimate is that this increase would be quite small and expensive with difficulty. The corners are left blank currently but any use of them in the future will not allow much and will be with restricted view in some places. The reason for the size is without doubt the rest of the development and it is these buildings that would restrict any future increase. If, and it is a huge one I know, Argyle ever got to the premiership then it is probable that they would have to move elsewhere to get anywhere near the capacity it would need. So, being promoted to the premiership would mean that a benefactor would be required for Argyle to have any chance of staying there whilst a new ground, taking years probably to build, was built. In the meantime they would or could lose more than £250k a home match in turnstyle revenue times 19 matches at home in a season.
Am I correct in saying that when the first proposals were mentioned, that a second tier could be added to the existing horseshoe development without too much trouble This would solve all our immediate concerns but would probably have a 10-12K limit I would imagine?
In any business decision, capacity costs money. If you provide more capacity than is necessary to meet "normal" demand, then you have money tied up doing nothing and earning nothing. That's business suicide. OK, deciding what "normal" demand is is a judgement call, not an exact science but it sure as hell isn't 30k a week in the Premier League for PAFC. You tell me what a sensible number is but it ain't that. There are very simple solutions if you do find you have more demand than capacity. If the excess is permanent and sufficient to give you a pay-back, you add extra capacity even if that means paying top dollar for it by building a new school or something that the council wants. If the excess is temporary, like one freak season for PAFC in the Premier League, you put your prices up until you're milking every last penny out of the capacity you do have. Sony & Microsoft won't be spending millions to meet demand for every single person who wants a new generation games consoles at Christmas. They'll try to avoid shortages sure but not at any cost. There's a good reason for that...... The point you have to knock down if you think we need a bigger ground is that it's been a long, long time since PAFC averaged more than 17k with any regularity. From memory we had 1, just 1, season in the Championship when the new ground wouldn't have been quite big enough, that's all. PS An afterthought It's wrong to think of this as being pro or anti Brent [although I'm sure there are plenty who are]. What's a stake here is what's best for PAFC. I was careful with my words: whilst the club doesn't have to find the millions needed to build the stand - which is clearly couldn't do from its own resources - Joe is right in that it will have to pay the rent for it which I'd imagine it can afford. It's not in the club's interest to be paying rent for a much larger ground than it actually requires or is likely to require in all but the most unlikely circumstances like getting to the Premier League. After what we've been through, I just don't see it being other than what you might call the "Green Army syndrome" to get greedy and call for a bigger ground than we are likely ever to need. There is a price for that, year after year.
How do you know it would not be 30k, as i took a guess at that. so i don't know what it will be until we get there. Do away with the shops he proposes to build as there are plenty empty in the city! There will be a lot of objections to this as the Friends of central park or what ever they are called are moaning! Can't blame them. Just build a stand and forget all the other crap that is intended, we have a cinema and ice rink... But that ice rink is in the way for Bent to build another eye sore hotel i suppose, with the help and backing off that Person Pengelly or mayor/ess. It is still not free in my view..
