There have been a lot of accusations from the IAWT, AKB or whatever you want to call them "brigade" that the fans that want Wenger to go are all knee jerk reactions to a bad week or so and that it was after one game against Bayern that they started to call for him to go. On the other hand the ones who want him gone are saying that its 8 years without a trophy and that a club like Arsenal should be aiming for more than just 4th place every year and for the last few years even that hass been at risk. We've had Lasagna and a couple of Spurs collapses to thank for getting 4th. And again we are at risk of finishing below them. So I wanted t ask whether you think its a reaction to a bad period or something that has been simmering for a long time. Was the Bayern match just the final straw after 8 years or did you already want him gone, and if so for how long have you wanted him out? If you want him to stay what would it take to change your mind? Some have already crossed that line, is it just a case of what it would take? I think we all want whats best for the club we support, its just that our view of whats best differs.
We are all Gooners, that always remains People are allowed to have their opinons of course, but I don't really care for any particular camp or allegience. The IAWT and the AKB sound like the People's front of ****ing Jedea to me . . in exactly the same way that it's a ridiculous split between fans who want the same thing. Ultimately the club have the deciding say and they aren't going to be sacking Wenger,
To paraphrase Monty Python, 'We are acting like the ****ing Judean people's front' at times on here. 'Splitters' - you're either Wenger in or Wenger out. Thinking one or other is going to be kill or cure
I think AW had it nailed in a recent interview. Today's society is full of people that want it now - instant and continued gratification is all that's acceptable to them. Add to this that those calling for AW's head appear to be late teenagers or early 20's explains a lot too. They have no experience to speak of, other than the latter glory years we enjoyed under Wenger. These tend to be the same people who after seeing a player have one good game, will go on a rant about how AW missed buying him in the last window, as if buying any player we want only requires our asking for him and it is a done deal. Our not buying him means AW is useless. It reminds me of a kiddy walking past a sweet shop and asking for sweets and mum saying no only for the kid to then fall to the floor screaming out how much they hate her. Whilst I fully appreciate the fact these reactionary fans want more of those early AW years, we all do, they do not have the maturity to analyse the situation properly. They appear only see things in black & white when the reality is that there are lots of unknown factors which make most things grey. Sure we can guess & make assumptions about various things, but that is all they can ever be until the facts are known and with Arsenal FC that ain't too often We have had polls on here asking whether AW should be sacked or not and the results are close. Ask the same question of non Arsenal fans and I can assure you that the result will be a resounding 'Keep him'. These other supporters looking at us think we are mad to want to get rid of him and with the exception of a couple of clubs, would give anything to trade places with us. Are we greedy, spoilt and ungrateful at times? Sadly, yes.
COYG, I think you miss one of the points of the Wenger Out Brigade, which is that its been 8 years that we have not won anything andjust about every transfer window the board come out and say there is money to spend, like in January they said Wenger had £30m to spend but he only bought 1 player at the last minute to cover for injury. Add to that the profit from the sales of players like Fabregas, Nasri, RVP and others which has not been reinvested in top quality. That is not instant gratification, its years of the team/squad getting weaker while others have caught up and we're now struggling to maintain fourth AGAIN. And when we sell players Wengers line of not buying because "it would kill" one of the young players is becoming laughable, all we're seeing now is the young players develop and **** off somewhere else for twice as much as Arsenal will pay them and they have far better chances of winning trophies. And for the record I am 41 and have supported Arsenal since 1975/6.
I am Gooner. I am just as aware of the 8 year wait as anyone and it hurts. I can't say if it hurts me more or less than you or others, but it hurts a lot. You mention the January window and say he only made one last minute purchase as if that is all he tried to do. That is dishonest. We know he tried to purchase David Villa from Barca, but they refused to let him go. There were surely others we tried to purchase, but we can't go in with a shotgun and force clubs to sell or players to join us. I agree with you that our team has got weaker over the last few years, but it is not a weak team by any stretch of the imagination. I would also point out that during that same time, our club has grown considerably stronger financially. We are in it for the long game and have an excellent financial foundation to now build upon. To try and claim that Arséne refuses to buy new players solely because 'it would kill' one of our younger players is laughable and again, dishonest of you. If it were true, I would be screaming for his head too. Yes, we have lost some very good players over the years, as have all teams, but to suggest as you do that we have a habit of developing and then choosing to sell our young players once they develop is again dishonest. To suggest that we can compete with those clubs that can afford to pay double our wage is also most unrealistic. The age issue was a generalisation, which I think you realise despite having felt the need to make the point
Enduring 8 years before finally coming out and saying Wenger needs to go does not indicate a need for "continued gratification". What a pile of specious bullcrap. I'm in my late twenties and have supported Arsenal more than 20 years. Others are older. Actually, one of the main complaints from the WOB is how we buy merely "good" players like Giroud who aren't quite the quality we need. So you have no idea what you're talking about. Most of the people calling for us to buy players accept that not every player is Arsenal quality. If you want an example of ranting about buying players after a few good games, what about when most of the AKB folks were calling for us to buy Sessegnon, Benteke and Holtby? Who would want Sessegnon now? More babble. Actually, the WOB people on this board have been analysing a lot of factors that the AKB have chosen to ignore. For example, the quality of coaching, the lack of squad depth, the fitness of the team and our recovery from injuries, the faith Wenger has in some players who aren't good enough, and the reluctance to drop players in bad form. You on the other hand can only spout reactionary bollocks in response to that. So get it right. Yes close, yet you dismiss everyone on the other side as immature and reactionary. Do you know the age of all of those who voted, or even most? Yet you "react" like this. Interesting, because I'm sure non Arsenal fans want what is best for Arsenal, right?
Typical load of bollocks I expect from someone like you. Want to send your dad around to fight my dad next? I am Gooner - I look forward to your reasoned response, should you wish to post one.
Typical response from someone who ignores reasoned arguments he can't respond to, and focuses on the insults. If you accuse us of being immature kids rolling around crying outside a sweet shop, that's what you get. Now kindly go cry about it your dad, and maybe he'll save mine the trip.
Now, now boys. Youre both using language which is quite frankly insulting. COYG, you have accused me of being dishonest so please post some evidence to prove this beyond doubt. For example you said we tried to buy Villa but Barca refused to sell. There has been some speculation that we made an offer (I saw £7m somewhere which is way below what they would sell for) but I have seen nothing concrete to confirm we made a genuine and realistic offer so to accuse me of being dishonest is quite frankly insulting. On top of this how many transfer windows have fans been crying out for someone to be bought to strengthen a particular position which is folowed by media speculation but no one being bought. If we were seious about buying proven quality players we would have seen more coming in for the positions we were crying out for them. You also accuse me of being dishonest about Wenger having said about a few players that if he bought someone else in that position it would kill them. Well he has, the quote was not made up, Wenger has said it in several interviews over the years. I cant be bothered to search for evidence, I'm sure you must have seen it as well. I would also like to add that you have written off Arseguns comments without actually addressing any of the issues he has raised, some of which are genuine and more reasonable than a lot of your responses. I am finding more and more that it as more people move to the WOB that they are trying to give reasoned arguements for it (although sometimes with some insults thrown in) and it is the IAWT brigade who are showing the blinkered viewpoint without backing it up with reasoned arguement or substantiual facts. As for my position, I have given Wenger the benefit of the doubt throughout until the loses to Bradford, Blackburn and Bayern at which point I've had enough. Its not that I think Wenger has lost it, its that I think football has moved forward (largely because of his influence) and he has not been able to keep up with it. A lot of the changes have included how to beat Arsenal. Add the allegations of rifts between him and Bould because Bould wants to train the defenders to defend but Wenger thinks its limiting the teams attacking prowess and the ease with which top teams score against us and it strengthens the WOB arguement. When the likes of Bradford and Blackburn beat us there arte certainly questions to be asked. One upset would be understandable but two so close raises serious questions, even you must agree with that.
He posts his opinion, gets taken to school over it, so instead of reasoning, he becomes petulant & insulting. It's his formula. He's unable to use reasoning. What worries me is I think he's actually over 15. I fear for this country.
I've removed the direct insults from my posts, but he's still talking bollocks. Indeed, thanks for noticing.
No problem, Ive given you a like for that comment. You gave legitimate reasons for your views unlike him.
Another completely misleading post in response to my points. No wonder I get so pissed off with you lot. You are deliberately ignoring most of what I said and twisting the points I made in direct response to comments you made or you are a bloody fool. I honestly don't know which it is. Bonstar, try reading posts 7 & 8 again and then tell me who was being reasonable and who was trying to instigate more fighting. Even though the answer is crystal clear, you are still a sanctimonious **** Oxocube has found a new bandwagon to jump on, how sweet for the kiddy.
Seeing as post 8 is a reply to post 5, I doubt that would be useful. By saying we're like a bunch of kids rolling around crying outside a sweet shop, I think you started the "fighting". Nevermind though, you can't be reasoned with.
I think any Arsenal fan who wants to win the Premier League is completely justified in wanting a new manager. Wenger has demonstrated over a number of years that he is perfectly happy being part of (or completely incompetent at opposing) a project based on acting as a feeder club to the teams who will challange for the league.
Do you honestly believe the **** you are posting? My initial post (#5 I think) made one small reference to dummy spitting and you responded as if I had shagged your sister and drowned your gold fish. What a sense of self importance you have if you think everything I write is about you! My 2nd post was in reply to a level headed 'I am Gooner' and yet you still jumped in with more bollocks, spurred on by that pompous prat Bonstar no doubt. Can I suggest you simply pretend to put me on ignore as Bonstar does and leave me to converse with the grown ups. Thanks awfully
