Mr Cameron used the veto , upsetting the rest of europe , He said he did to protect Britains Interests! Good on him I say , the EU is going down the tubes the euro is still in crisis! Cameron imo has done the right thing , Should never have got so entangled with the EU anyway , We should have stayed with the commonwealth an dealt with our scandinavian neighbours instead! These are just my views , what do you guys think? If we were to have a referendum would you vote for or against the EU and why?
Just think of all the stupid EU Rules and Regs we could get rid of The Human Rights we could shelve, bliss?
We need to stay in the EU. and try to become a more active player within it - perhaps even aspiring to a leadership role, rather than perpetually complaining from the sidelines. I know that some EU. regulations are idiotic but where is the alternative - our future lies geographically with Europe - the commonwealth has no real meaning any more (at least not economic) and I do not want us pulling even closer to America than we are already - 51st State of the U.S.A. no thanks !
The EU was flawed from the start the only amazing thing about it is how it has lasted so long , you cannot have so many different peoples and different cultures and expect them to fit snugly into the same system ! Britain need s to put more emphasis on re starting a manufacturing base rather then bailing out spend crazy nations ! This will get worse as more nations join! Rather than Europe we should be trying to do more business with China and India Furthermore why should we have idiots (on fat salaries ) in Brussels telling us what we can and cant do! All you are doing is putting yet another layer of fat cat good for nothing bureacrats and politicians into the system! when we should be leaning them off!
I'd rather stay, get the safeguards we want and be able to get rid of the stupid human rights laws and all the other rubbish.....but that won't happen so might as well leave and let the sinking ship drown. Sure.....we were never going to get all that we wanted, but I don't think we owe anything to Europe. Why pay out of our pockets and spend it on failing countries who have only themselves to blame when we need to focus on our own struggling economy? We still have the ability to negotiate deals with the other major powers....and to be honest I wouldn't be upset about having better relations with USA/China/India at the expense of Europe.
I agree about it being difficult with so many cultures and so on, and feel that the EU. needs a looser structure to make it work. Europe's strength lies in it's differences and needs a structure where every country's abilities can flourish in their own way - Germany cannot work like Britain, nor the other way around. I agree with a lot of the substance of Cameron's speech - but to leave the EU. altogether would be idiotic. But then how can I say anything different having lived in Germany for 22 years and having dual nationality ? It appears that many people in Britain are suspicious of the apparent Franco - German domination of the EU. and are against it for this reason, but what else can happen ? Germany pays the most money into the EU. budget and so it's only reasonable that they would want a proportional influence - and, they need a partner and, as long as Britain dithers on the sidelines, it has to be France. Britain could, and should, play a more active part generally if they want their own special needs to be taken into account.
The problem being that to get that influence and play a part you have to put money in. This money is going down the drain on economies who have been sitting around all day wasting money and being lazy whilst others cough up the bill......and now that they need to cut public spending they all go on strike and dig themselves even deeper. It's optimistic to hope that these changes being proposed will help....but is it really worth it? Would anything we contribute ever come back our way or is our only purpose to help struggling countries? Besides....they probably would have tried to impose that financial transaction tax on us anyway......and then we would be forced to exit. Dread to think what might happen if Labour were in charge......
Not for certain, but a lot less than Germany and France...which is fair enough considering they contribute more....but more is being spent on struggling countries such as Italy, Spain and Greece too. I could also hazard a guess that the figure is lower than the amount we contribute.
Also, why would a financial transactions tax be so harmfull ? Other than to burn the fingers of some speculative sharks in the city of London - and, if our economy has become so reliant on them then something is seriously wrong.
Because presumably the buck will be passed onto people like me.....the younger generation in London. Like they predicted......it would cost hundreds of thousands of jobs......how is that not harmful? The financial sector is too important for us to lose.
Agreed madmoose. A financial transaction tax would just feedthrough to investors like pension funds and individuals saving for their future. Plus such a tax would fall dispropointly on britain. Plus if you can find a financial transaction that isnt allready subject to some form of tax or levy i'll be surprised! What needs to happen is retail deposit taking banks are not allowed to be liable for risky investment banking and tighter regulation. One of the propblems i have with the eu is it is too diverse- most politicians strugle to run there own country let alone a group of 30 odd each with different priorities and pressures trying to steer the best course for them all. As an example, its advantageous for germany to keep the euro as a efloated deutshmark would soar above the current euro level as it would not be weighed down by greece etc. However greece if it started using its own currency could devalue its currency to make its debts more manageable and make it a more attractive tourist destination. You also have debacles such as the common fisheries policy( i wont go into this one as i am very passionate on this. ) I feel a free trade area is one thing and beneficial but there are political and fiscal union need to either happen simultaneous or not at all (incidently if your interested on multiple states unifying its worth reading up on the unificatiob of germany. Ps i am not suggesting all of europe declare war on france!)
I think we need to seperate the EU from the "Euro Experiment". The original concept of the EU is fairly sound, i.e. to remove or lower physical and financial barriers to the movement of goods across member states - this is based on the same ideals as EFTA and also works well as the EEA to include Norway and Switzerland. Where it has all gone tit's up is the professional politians and administrators like the Kinnocks creating a whole new industry of legislation and rule making that to keep the momentum going they have expanded far too fast into the old Eastern Block countries. Now add to this the doomed "Euro Experiment" which is based on the members economies being fairly equal and thus they can compete across the community on a fairly even playing field - the only trouble is that they have not been any where near equal and most of the latter entrants have lied and cheated to get in and stay in...Greece were never in a position to join under the entry criteria and the continued to fiddle their numbers to hide their non-compliance. For years, France and Germany also did not meet the criteria for Euro membership, but the politians turned a blind eye. We are now in the position that the Germans need all these countries to stay in the Euro zone so that they can continue to export their cars and goods to them and become richer by the day, but will not support the borrowing needed to fund their continued membership. It will all end in tears and countries will have to leave the Euro zone as they cannot continue to borrow money to fund their debts. The Euro zones has been an experiment thought up by crazy politians and supported by so called super-brain economists who thought that countries could continue to grow based on debts from consuming spending and the continued growth in house prices -it seems that they still not have learnt from The Black Tulip, The South Sea Bubble and the .Com bubbles. Problem is as always, it will be the working man & women that will pay for these bastards...
The EU have interfered in Jersey affairs in the past even though we're not members. This has caused riots in the island as it was saying that the system we had of sending the Portugese back home for 3 months of the year was illegal under EU law - the Portugese themselves didn't complain, but the ill-feeling about it from islanders means that the Jersey Police hope that England and Portugal aren't drawn against each other in a big football tournament. Mind you, the Portugese don't help themselves as a large number of them seem to be very insular whereas you can't say that about the Poles and Filipinos.
Watching from my safe distance I can see that when the union started it was a completely different idea to what it is today and there is no democracy in the euro area. One thing I have never seen anyone write is that France tried to dominate Europe with revolution at the end of 1700s and Napoleon and German tried with the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. These two things failed and I think the latest French German idea will as well, it could survive but as a different thing. Is it true the German people pay more taxes into the Greek economy than the Greek people? The politicians here want to join but the reasons are not right. We are a very small country and will disappear inside European Union. How can a nation of 320.000 have any power when even towns in most other nations are bigger?
Exactly which EU rules & regs are you thinking of TPSH? And shelving Human Rights legislation - Why? Surely there must be some good in preventing arbitrary arrest, torture, imprisonment without trial etc. etc. or shall we revert to a mediaeval monarchy? Please enlighten us......
And I suspect that the money spent on projects in France and Germany is a lot less than they, in turn, contribute. So why are France and Germany in the EU? Surely Germany with its powerful economy doesn't need to be in the EU? The argument that the UK would be better off outside the EU surely applies even more to France and especially to Germany. So why are they not leaving it? Why is the EU spending so much on "struggling countries" like Italy, Spain & Greece (not to mention Ireland & Portugal)? Surely the richer countries in the EU would be better off if it broke apart? Why do the Americans want a more politically integrated and fiscally solid EU? They could just as easily trade with the individual countries couldn't they? I suspect that the honest answer to all this is that all Europe has benefited enormously from the EU single market (and that includes the UK) - even those countries "just outside" it like Norway, Iceland, Switzerland have also benefited from dealing with this single market. And considering the pressures of the world economy, the single market has to evolve, like it or not, into a more coherent entity - a single political, fiscal & economic unit to withstand the US and the Far East, Japan, China and ultimately India especially. We have a choice - to go with it or to leave what the EU is becoming - we cannot sustain our position as 1 against the other 26 countries - even if they continue to allow us to remain like this. From my perspective, those who think that if the UK left the EU, it could make a go of it on the outside, alone, are living in a fool's paradise. No other trading block would be interested in us as a member! All my life I have lived in a declining country since the Second World War (which finished us a major power - contrary to what many Little Englanders still think). Those making such a fuss about "losing our Sovereign powers" to Brussels should ponder on the fact that the Treasury and Civil Service (the Surrey brigade who really run the country - not the politicians) have virtually run the UK into the ground over the last 50 years. Without the EU we would be virtually finished now as a trading nation also. The "Commonwealth", that our Icelandic warrior refers to, turned away from us years ago to trade with Germany, France, US, Japan, China........who all modernised their industry while we sat back complacently. Are we to rely on selling goods to India? - they are already manufacturing vastly more than us! Why is it that the Americans have invested so much in the UK? Is that we share a common language and have a Special Relationship? Hardly, they see us as being part of "Europe" - if we left the EU, US firms would pull out of the UK in droves - and relocate within the single market - language difficulties or no language difficulties. I know this - having worked for US companies for my entire career - there is no sentimental business attachment to the UK for the overwhelming majority of US companies. What about the German, French and Japanese companies who have a major presence in the UK, notably in the car manufacturing sector. How long would the likes of Peugeot, BMW, Honda, Toyota, Nissan retain their factories if we pulled out of the EU? We now do not have a single British-owned mass car manufacturing company remaining. Will we go looking to China and India for more "joint manufacturing" deals? Outside of the EU that would be enticing to these countries - not. The City of London will only sustain our balance of payments position (precarious at the best of times) for a limited time (financial transaction taxes, tighter fiscal control or not). When the City loses its leading position (and it surely will judging by the strides other financial centres have made in recent years) then unless we are part of a larger organisation, we will go under more spectacularly than any minor EU country. After all, there is only a limited number of factories left that we can pull down and replace with B & Q's or MacDonalds. We had our (deserved) time in the sun - it's over - get over it! Cameron has just taken the defining first step towards a catastrophe. But I don't care - I will not be around long enough to witness the final humiliation - it's the twenty, thirty and forty-somethings and their children that will suffer.
No he hasnt increasing numbers of companies are listing in uk compared to last year. The euro is locked in crisis! Oh by the way ghe us need eu debt stabalised too stablise there own debt
Think he's talking more along the times of garbage Human Rights than what you're suggesting...would've thought anyone would pick up on that!? E.g...how much of a claim culture there is today.....how over the top health and safety is that people die because of health and safety!..and being who have lost the right to have human rights being given all kinds of lavishes (at our expense) because it's their "right". I agree in part.....it's irresponsible to look at the smaller picture and make a full judgement. Every benefit has it's cost.....which is obviously why the government doesn't want to have a referendum. Why let the public decide when it will most likely not know enough to make an educated decision? I'm not really decided either way, even if I would prefer a split to a deal that goes against us......but I do think you're argument is one sided. You can ask "Why do France or Germany do this?"...but then not think about why we don't? You can hardly call our decision to avoid the Euro bad.....Germany and France are stuck in this mess and it's their mess to clean up, not ours. They are looking out for themselves as much as anyone though....and they are in a different position to us.....so I can't see a reason to assume us the naive child whilst the rest of the world are grown adults who don't give a **** about us. Not that I think we're particularly important.....as you said our time has gone....but we're still one of the biggest economies in the world, and the Euro will be worse off without us.....and you could argue that every economy would benefit from trade with us. Even if relations are sour...we have cards left to play.....and staying in/further committing ourselves to the EU only to see it crumble is hardly going to solve anything.
