I know theres been alot said on FT, many of you bored with the talk, if that is the case stop reading and leave the thread without comment, it'll be a waste of your time and mine. And theres no need to stress yourself out If however you are open to talk about it then read on, With Torres now reduced to a benchwarmer you could make the assumption (obviously not in the know) that AVB doesnt trust him and his chelsea days look numbered, his body launguage is woeful and as adrian chiles pointed out before the game, he looks absolutley miserable. I was wondering what the deal was that originally took him to stamford bridge, i know alot of people are suggesting we basically asked for andy carroll plus 15m but i havent heard the club confirm this, reason i ask is these days very rarely are the transfer fees paid in their entirity. What i'm getting at is maybe chelsea only paid us a certain amount for Torres with the rest spread over a period. If this was the case maybe it'd be an option to get Torres back to anfield and forgoe the remainder of the transfer fee (with a view to selling Andy Carroll, christ knows who to !!the Geordies probably being leading candidates) I personally belive he is still a quality striker and it just hasnt happened for him at chelsea, maybe this will have taught him a lesson that it was the club that made him who he was. He looks shell shocked at chelsea like he didnt understand how much of a differance it would be at another english club. Liverpool FC is special and i think he knows what he gave up now. A front 2 of suarez and torres would be immense, the movement would be something special and i for one would feel a bit more confident with Torres instead of Andy Carroll leading our line. Only stumbling block i'd see would be wages, maybe he HAS lost it ! in which case paying 150k a week would be madness but if like i belive he's in a "bad moment" (copyright @carlo ancelotti) then what a thunderous strike force that'd be. I dont like to speculate on hypotheticals but if he was available and willing to drop his wages to say 90k i personally think its a gamble worth taking, worst case scenario Malaga and Anzi Mak would break the bank to sign him off us (ha thats alot of speculating !!!) if things turned out poorly. I'd be intersted to hear what fellow reds think about this, i know he handed in a transfer request which in the fans eyes makes him unwanted here but lets be honest with ourselves Steven Gerrard also handed in a transfer request. Footballers generally are mercenries these days and if theres a good deal to be done we shouldnt cut our own noses off to spite our faces.
I heard that Newcastle insisted on all of the £35M for Andy C to be paid upfront. Now, I have no idea if this is true, nor do I know if our owners would have funded such a purchase, but putting 2 & 2 together (making 5), if we paid everything upfront for Andy, then it would only make sense if we were getting the £50M in upfront from Chelsea.
no no and no again. 1. if you believe the spivs at newcastle, who basically are big mouthing seeing they are temporally in the top 4 on about us paying for carroll day one.... well why not believe the guys at our club 2. our guys actually held back on torres and merely stated anyone who doesn't want to be here could go. 3. a logical progression would say bring such a person back would destroy morale. 4. add his form to this logic and you see why this is a mad idea finally if i think about my opinion of Chelsea i think AVB wants to play him but can't get the rest of them there to play the high pressing game he wants. its lampard, terry and drogba running the show there, torres seems to be caught in a trap where the senior players there don't want him so i find that to be karma.
Yeah i did hear that aswell (even had the cheek to charge us an extra 12k intrest on the late payment) not sure if its true but if it is, could be the case that chelsea payed the carroll fee upfront with the remainder over a certain period, again pure speculation on my part. Whats your thoughts on actually getting Torres back if we are still owed 15m ? would you forgoe that amount and have him back or recieve the (hypothetical) fee & look for alternatives ?
I think Chelsea have gone about Nando in a completely the wrong way, everybody at liverpool knows he's a confidence player who doesn't play well if he's not starting the game. I think Chelsea should have stuck with him last season untill they learned how to play with him and he got his confidence back. Now by not starting him you can see his confidence is shot and he looks very unhappy(the morale factor was a problem at liverpool too!), effectively Chelsea have managed to devalue him £25m in a year. Its a shame really because he was a great player, in some ways I feel sorry for him and in others i feel like it serve's him right. At the end of the day I think the Torres ship has sailed, I don't want him back now and i would think Dalglish definately wont take him back after basically telling the world he wasn't good enough. I would like to finish by saying that I wish Nando all the best for the future at which ever (big) club he ends up at, afterall he was a great servant for liverpool and ultimately he probably left just at the right time.
Well i dont 100% belive what they said, it wasnt released in a statement in fact wasnt DL talking to some fans in a bar ? not sure. End of the day it comes down to improving the 1st 11 and even in this form he's better than Andy Carroll, a few weeks ago he looked like he was returning to something close to his top form. Scored a few and set up a few prior to his red card. I am by no means a Torres fanboy btw, i just watched the match and thought to myself theres a deal to be done here ! a few goals and i think morale wouldnt be a problem. It would also depend on Torres himself if he would be up for working hard and proving the Liverpool fans wrong, providing Kenny thinks his heads in the right place i think he'd improve the squad. No offense to Andy Carroll but he will never be as good as Torres and also will not fit into our system aswell as Torres. I also wonder what value there is out there in the market and if we get it right or wrong, when we could just take a calculated gamble in Torres we know he will score goals for us, might take him a month or so but would it be more of a gamble for say a lavezzi type (by that i mean a leading striker in a foreign league) who have never played in the prem ?
Yeh looks like AVB has found out just how influential the players are, i heard a conspiracy theory that AVB is using the high line to expose Terry's defending so that he can sanction a new CB to take terry's place in the team and the dressing room !
It's a shame because he could have become a Liverpool legend instead of a figure of hate. I understand why he wanted to leave - the Hodgson era was dire and the tactics did not suit him which often left him isolated and made him out to be uninterested. Furthermore, he's an ambitious player who wants to be playing the Champions League and winning titles. I have no issues with that whatsoever. Unfortunately, it's his lack of respect to LFC which is what annoys LFC fans the most. All he had to do was say nothing and he would have had some credibility and maybe I would have been happy to see him back in a red shirt in the future. With regards to his form at Chelsea, its simple - the tactics do no suit him. He likes to run off the last defender and into space. At Chelsea, he is playing with his back to goal and he does not have the strength to hold up the play and link up with others hence why Drogba is so good at Chelsea. To prove this - look at FT's stats under Rafa. Still not convinced? - FT managed to score roughly 3 goals in 5 games under Kenny compared to his stats under Roy. Simply put - he was made for Liverpool and I'd just wish he was a little more patient with Kenny because he and Suarez would have been devastating.
1.torres would only be back to go again. he wanted to go somewhere to winthe cl and jumped at chelsea stupidly. he would love to go to italy but is too afraid to go to real. let him go there. 2.I don't see this deal.yes they bought duff for 17mil and sold him for 5 so deals such as these are not unheard of but chelsea are NOT going to give us the guy back. 3. sure 15mil is nothing for a really good forward but we must move on as well. his injury record proves just that. 4. finally if you turn the argument around and have him come back AND NOT SCORE like he's done for chelsea morale would sink. carroll's 35mil would be a write off and i think others would not be at all happy either. all in all it'd be like trying to reset the clock to january, swapping one out of form player for another.....giving newcastle and ashley 35mil for nothing and worse risk the whole team spirit. MY opinion is i'd rather risk 25mil ona player we've got belief in succeeding on the say so of comolli and kenny than take this risk
The only positive about Carroll is that he's younger and he has time to improve. However, he has a lot to do and I'm talking about the basics. Fans can keep saying he's not fit or match sharp but how long does it take a professional footballer to get match fit, control a ball, pass a ball and attack a ball? These are basics and he's poor in every aspect. I don't think i've seen him attack a ball since his goal against Man City last season. I was a big fan of his when he was at Newcastle but he does not have the desire to play for Liverpool (IMO). Fans are quick to accuse FT of looking uninterested under Roy but the same applies to Carroll - just because he's English does not mean he's exempt from criticism.
With all due respect, i'd be lieing if i said i had confidence in commoli and co to come up with a 25m striker that would be MUCH better than the current Torres, the 35m for Andy Carroll being the obvious white elephant sat beside us here !!!! Torres as i stated WAS getting back to great form prior to his red card, i cant be the only one who noticed and was a little bit gutted as it appeared the Nando we knew and love was essentially back. Funny people go on about his injuries when he hasnt been injured once since moving to the chelsea and if anything all that time on the bench would mean he's fresh, he looks like someone who is desperate to prove himself but knows he hasnt got a cat in hells chance of being given a fair playing field to do so by his teammates. I personally belive him and suarez would dovetail fantasticlly, torres still has friends at liverpool you could see that after the game at stamford bridge so he WOULD be given the support on the field. Big Andy ...well what to say he was never worth 35m and Newcastle got a tremendous deal out of us....doesnt mean we have to make it work, i'm sure they would take him back for (arguments sake) atleast 18m, that would represent a loss of 17m in one year truely woeful but at the end of the day it was chelsea's money so wouldnt be that hard to swallow ! I think it would be a better speculative move than keeping Big Andy and trying to force the situation.
Here's a slightly off comment , ignore FT and sign a certain French striker who has been told he can leave Chelsea in January. That's right bring Nicolas Anelka back to the club. Why Gerry never signed him on a permant deal always puzzles me.
Also, Torres only seemed to get injured during International duty which was really annoying. I don't recall him being injured often whilst playing for LFC. Regarding Andy Carroll - there is a reason as to why the traditional English centre forward is becoming extinct and that's because the league has developed technically (thanks to the influx of foreign players). Typical CF's are big, bullying, use force to win the ball and it's just not suited to the modern game. Players with intelligence, good touch and good movement are more likely to succeed which is great for the game.
well diadora barnes storm we come to the crux..... you have no faith in kenny dalglish, damien comolli and the club's owners who appointed them. 25mil to buy a striker whos as good as torres now? we paid 23 for him when he was fit, so i think there's plenty out there. you say carroll, I say suarez. you say downing (right now) i say enrique. I for one gave torres my backing when this story first broke until the point he handed in a transfer request. he wanted to go but worse broke his word in going to an English club and especially them. ergo for me he no matter what the price is not what i'd want to see. for the record i complete agree with you on carroll as i saw no value in the deal at that price and its 35mil we will never see again. the rumor was llorente turned us down so i do think we bought badly but he's our player now and we've got to at least back him for the rest of the year to work and deliver something. 25 mil... silva, mata, just to name two.... go poach RVP whatever... but i back our men to work their hardest to get it right
I have faith in Commoli - as with any transfer, it's 50/50 on how they will turn out. DC has the contacts throughout Europe which will help us reach out to good players, similar to Rafa with Spanish players. It's a shame we didn't get Mario Gomez or Llorente ...
in the end they didn't want to come. is it cl football or wages or whatever.... we'll wait and see who we can get i suppose. My personal opinion on torres has not changed despite the debate.
Its not that i have zero confidence across the board, that was an over exageration on my part, they obviously bought well in suarez. my point is if available for say 20m i think torres would represent the best value and would be the best option as oppossed to an untested 20m player from other shores, providing he would even want to come back to us. I have and always will back our players, i may sound off from time to time in regards to the purchases we make but by the by they CAN perform, Andy Carroll on the other hand Cannot suddenly turn into a mobile front man with a good touch and silky link up play, it's not in his armour. I would love to be proved wrong but if we have serious ideas of finishing in the top four and beyond we need a classy striker to work well with and without suarez, sooner rather than later. My two cents. I can appreciate torres burnt his bridges with you and many fans, and thats a fair comment.
Surprised by the short memories of some on here. The crap that Torres has come out since about a 'bigger clubs' and the way he left the left the club in the lurch at the worst possible time, and to Chelsea, makes me bitter!! Would I have him back? Tough one. Like most on here, everyone loved him in a Liverpool shirt and somewhere deep down id like to see him back. But should it happen? No. He showed his colours and had a fall out with the likes of Carragher which would not be good, as has been said, for moral. Could it happen? Possible. Chelsea would have to take a massive loss though. I think the best/most likely option is for him to go back to Spain.
I've thought about this often over the last 10 months and ultimately I keep coming to the same conclusion every time....thanks but no thanks. I wish he'd never left but the pure money grabbing/glory hunting nature of his move was a stab in the back for all Liverpool fans.....(plus it spoiled my previous Billy El Nino/Billy The Kid 606 nickname AND rendered my 4 year old daughters favourite teddy Nando, sullied, unwanted and destined for life at the bottom of her toy box). His attitude around the club for months before his departure was at best sullen and at worst downright miserable and do we really want that again? I know I don't and I doubt Kenny will either. The things that bugged me most were the timing of the move basically knowing he was leaving us in the ****, the fact that he joined a rival club without a care for the Liverpool fans who'd worshipped him over the years and by far the worst of all is his ramblings about joining "a bigger club" what an ungrateful ****. What I'd love most is for us to succeed without Torres while he rots on the declining Chavs bench Having said all that.....if he offers to come back and play for free for a year as way of an apology then I'll give him a second chance
