[The Athletic] The secrets of how Liverpool scout

Michael Edwards does not want Liverpool’s scouts to be cautious when delivering their opinions. This explains why the club’s sporting director has implemented a simple grading system which makes it clear to him what they really think.

Each player under review is ranked from A to D. Top marks means urgent attention is required because the player is considered by the scout to have the capacity to replace someone in Liverpool’s first team. Grade B means the player could supplement what Liverpool already have or possess the potential to develop the squad either now or in the future. While C merits checking in with progress from time to time, D, simply, is considered not good enough.

Liverpool’s database is dominated by C and D grades because of the high standards being delivered by Jurgen Klopp’s side. An A is very rare and even rarer is a lightning bolt moment that leads a scout to tell Edwards that Liverpool must act straight away. Even a D will have had ample opportunities to impress. From the outside, it might be viewed as a waste of time watching a full-back fifteen or even 20 times only to form a conclusion that is not particularly positive but such exhaustive processes can lead scouts towards another player’s talent and with that, another trail begins.

For Edwards, the present almost matters less than the future. Even if he brokers a world-record deal for Virgil van Dijk or Alisson Becker, the scouts know they cannot afford to think everything will work out. It means their pursuit of a replacement begins almost straight away. There is also a belief at Liverpool that someone else out there might be better. Given that Van Dijk and Alisson have since proven themselves as world-class, this makes the challenge far from easy.

Liverpool’s scouting department is small compared to some of their rivals but this makes it easier to control. By comparison, up until last year, Manchester United had a representative posted to every significant football-playing country across the globe. That’s more than 80 scouts. At Liverpool between 12 and 15 have full-time contracts and the club does not use consultants. Each scout covers two or three countries or sub-regions at any one time, sometimes in conjunction with another role, say in the north or the south of England.

The demands on scouts at Liverpool are considerable because there are fewer of them. Yet Edwards believes the variety of the work helps keep minds fresher, therefore making judgments sharper. Though other clubs have a much higher number of employees, it does not mean they have a network that reaches further or, indeed, produces greater accuracy.

At Liverpool, it is considered that having someone across every league during every week of a season does not necessarily lead to better judgments and far-sighted decisions. Does the repetition of the work lead to a scout challenging his own opinion less? Does the same process happening over and over again eventually result in a lack of enthusiasm? A scout, who does not work for Liverpool, told The Athletic this week that he or any of his colleagues has to be excited whenever he enters a football stadium. He has to hope that he might see something he has not seen before.

Liverpool’s scouts are known for putting the miles in. It is said that at other Premier League clubs there are scouts who, as one intermediary put it “are reluctant to get their hands dirty”, which is basically his way of saying someone has worked only at the top, attending elite-level games without stretching their own boundaries.

“The scouts at Liverpool are addicts,” he suggests. There is one whose responsibilities are enormous, covering duties both in the United Kingdom and other parts of the world. Yet he still attends under-18 games involving League Two clubs on his days off, which are rare. Apparently, scouts at other clubs tease him for his appetite while he tells them they are lazy and full of excuses.

At Liverpool, scouts are asked to focus on players under the age of 24 but each one has the freedom to operate in a way they feel is appropriate to the region. Some even use sources on Twitter to find out which young players have made their debuts in a far-flung field. There are no directives from the club about how many times a scout should watch a player but professional debutants tend to be designated five games from the point of their introductions. The majority end up with D grades.

From afar, Edwards allows the scouts to get on with their jobs. They make their own travel arrangements but have the option to use a club account with an official provider. He is not in daily contact with them, asking what they are up to either verbally or via email. Only if he has a query does he get in touch. Scouts tend to think Edwards is good company whenever they meet him but appreciate he has a lot of work to do. His remit is not just the scouting department. This means that most work with him from a respectful distance and wait for his call.

Liverpool’s scouts file their reports on an online system. They have the option to restrict who sees it, though the club’s owners are allowed to look at whatever they want. There are entry sections for statistics and notes, which can relate to personal status. If a player is going through a divorce or has a gambling problem — or, more commonly, if a player’s representative is his father and he’s very protective of his son, Liverpool want to know about it and have records that include as much detail as possible.

More or less every professional game of football including friendlies across Europe is now recorded by camera and this means scouts have the option to add videos to their findings. Liverpool use InStat, the independent sports performance tool, which allows clips to be made from each match.

Liverpool, like most clubs, also have an account with a service called Scout7, which collects data from all matches across the world. Though the idea of developing their own data system was floated several years ago, it was decided that correlating data from all of the matches was a huge logistical challenge and ultimately a waste of time considering this sort of finite information was universally available.

“It is what a club does with the data that matters most anyway,” says a representative of another Premier League club. And Liverpool are known to be ahead of the game in that field as well given the presence of Ian Graham, who leads the analytics department, as well as William Spearman, the lesser-known computer programmer.

Edwards rarely calls scouting summits. Maybe once or twice a year will those who operate remotely in Britain travel to Merseyside. They’ll have lunch together and sometimes, Klopp will pop in but not always. When Liverpool reach finals, scouts are invited but otherwise, because they are so dispersed, it is very difficult to get together for social occasions.

It is felt that the system works because it is simple, personable and because trust exists. Interests are so closely aligned and that is a testament to the work of Graham, Dave Fallows — the head of recruitment and in charge of strategy, and Barry Hunter, the chief scout. The lines of communication are never closed and each scout knows that.

It has also helped scouts that the club has not been overly ambitious with expectations in public. Outsiders have compared the approach to the old Boot Room, where Bob Paisley, Joe Fagan and Roy Evans quietly went about their jobs without singing from the hills, listening to what was going on at other clubs rather than talking about their own. They knew that information was priceless. They also knew that Liverpool had the figureheads above them who were able to process that information and influence what was happening on the pitch.

It has not always been like this.

In his earliest days at Liverpool, Edwards was dismissed by some as a number cruncher who walked around the training ground with a spreadsheet. There was friction with Brendan Rodgers, the former manager, who saw him as a threat to his authority.

Edwards’ position, however, was never under threat because of support from Fenway Sports Group’s Mike Gordon, who admired his objectivity — particularly the way he dealt with bias in any decision-making process, acknowledging its potentially detrimental effect in football where it is difficult for many to filter out emotional responses. Gordon had seen how decisive Edwards could be. If the data of a player — even if he was well-liked at Liverpool — dropped below expectations, he would ensure the development was flagged and this led to conversations starting about the future.

The FSG president concluded that such clarity and ruthlessness would help keep Liverpool in a healthy position. Yet he also realised the club needed a world-class manager to ensure the chances of that happening went up. Gordon wanted to know before Klopp’s appointment whether Edwards and Klopp would be comfortable enough in each other’s company to express constructive disagreement.

 

Liverpool wanted to avoid a culture where the manager disagreed with lots of things privately and then complained later. It would be better if the manager intercepted issues before they became bigger.

“Speaking your mind and disagreeing at Liverpool isn’t just allowed,” Gordon told Klopp, who offered a pregnant pause and raised an eyebrow when they first met in New York. “It is required.”

Klopp was told by Gordon that he hated the thought of a good idea failing to develop because of a lack of trust dictating that any of the parties involved felt they were unable to say whatever was on their mind.

Five years later, the relationship between the pair is the base for everything that happens at Liverpool, with both appreciating that honest conversations tend to lead to the root of issues being found a lot quicker, as well as solutions.

A decade ago, Liverpool had no foreign-based scouts on full-time contracts. After two changes of ownership in the space of three years and four different managers across four seasons, the club was left without any sort of recognisable scouting strategy. Klopp then arrived at the club following successive summers where Edwards and Liverpool’s scouting department’s advice and decisions had contributed to roughly £200 million worth of spending yet only with the manager’s guidance would around £80 million of that outlay seem like a reasonable investment.

It was suggested that the recruitment strategy between 2012 and 2015 had become too focused on statistics but scouts who worked for the club around that period were still attending games and they were still filing reports like they do now.

It has been suggested to The Athletic that there were more mistakes because Liverpool’s database was still in its infancy. Monchi, the legendary Sevilla sporting director, calls it “big data,” recognising it takes time to develop a system of information and only after it reaches a more advanced stage can it be used more cleverly, which then leads to better interpretations and a refining of the process and decisions. One former Liverpool insider described this period at the club as “a learning process for everyone”.

Conclusions may have been based around the old and the new, but the focus of each Liverpool scout has never stopped being about the reporting and the finding out of information. Despite the huge amount of match footage and data available to access online, the significance of having specialists on the ground has never been viewed as anything less than important.

How else would a scout develop the sort of relationships that matter? There are important elements for a scout to know like a player’s contract situation and details around a release clause or potential issues with a work permit. This is particularly true when it comes to knowledge of younger age groups where there is less readily available footage.

Potential targets are regularly suggested through traditional methods of scouting but on other occasions the data has thrown up a name and this has led to a player being watched. Whichever comes first, those representing Liverpool in the field are expected to engage with as many sources as possible to establish the fullest picture. It is viewed as crucial that the player is watched in as many different environments as possible. Liverpool’s scouts need to ask: can a player perform under pressure at hostile away grounds? How do they cope against a team that presses high? How do they play against a team that sits deep? Can they deal with playing three or four games back to back over a short period of time? And, how did their output change?

The pandemic has made things more difficult but as much as possible they still get out to watch players in the flesh as it is believed that’s still the best way to assess a player’s attributes. Being there provides context to the video and data.

An extensive list of names for a particular position is then whittled down based on three key factors — ability, availability and affordability. Players move up and down the list for a particular position. It could be because of a contract situation. It could be because of a shift in the data. A player could move leagues or his position in the team could change. A change of manager could lead to a change in the team’s style. Analytics is used to help them make an informed decision in a constantly evolving process.

For summer transfers, plans have tended to accelerate around March in recent seasons.

Sometimes a player is of real interest, but Liverpool might not have a vacancy to fill in that position or they want to see how he performs in different environments before making a final decision on him. That player might move to another club, but they continue to keep track of his development. Scouts don’t work in isolation either. They are expected to work as part of a team. For example, if a scout is going to watch a Brazilian player in Portugal for the first time they will be armed with an extensive amount of information on how his career has evolved up to that point.

Liverpool’s scouts have never been expected to go through tables of numbers and the mathematics of the operation has very much remained in the hands of the experts who were based either in Cheltenham like Graham or back at the training ground. Elsewhere, some clubs have since adopted a purely algorithm-based scouting process, removing human interpretation altogether, while others have remained reliant on live scouting. Liverpool have harnessed both, leaving space for instinct and experience.

Scouts with such backgrounds, however, were expected to move with the times. Though traditional methods were encouraged, there also had to be a buy-in for change. “Some individuals didn’t believe in the way their info was being used and to some extent, that held the whole system back and explains why it didn’t succeed earlier,” suggests another source, once attached to Liverpool.

Those who showed reluctance or in some cases, resistance towards the data revolution would eventually leave. Mel Johnson had been a senior scout at Tottenham where he had recommended the signing of Gareth Bale before moving to Liverpool but his track record counted for little in the new world. There were other scouts who did not want to use the online database at all, having done the job for 25 years working from memory, pen and paper. There was a danger from Liverpool’s perspective with this type of approach. If the scout left for another club, so would most of his intelligence. Ultimately, the club wanted a safe place for records.

 

When attempting to sign Sadio Mane in the summer of 2016, for example, it helped that Liverpool had reports from the Senegalese forward’s time at Salzburg. His purchase is a reminder that with every signing, there is an element of fortune. Had Mario Gotze been more enthusiastic about the prospect of joining Liverpool, Mane would not have become their top attacking target. A year later, Klopp’s preferred choice in the transfer market was Julian Brandt from Bayer Leverkusen but the winger was concerned he would not command a regular starting spot with Mane, Roberto Firmino and Philippe Coutinho for competition.

Salah arrived because Klopp nevertheless made him feel valued and that is what he is brilliant at. Nobody thought Georginio Wijnaldum or Andy Robertson would prove to be game-changing signings but Klopp made them feel like they could be without imposing an unrealistic level of expectation. He, Gordon and Edwards are at the top of the chain when it comes to making final decisions and there are two principles. Firstly, no player will ever be bought if the manager does not want him. Secondly, FSG has the right to say no. Gordon has to be convinced that any deal makes sense financially.

Klopp and Edwards have a reputation for being able to see the sort of context that is needed to anticipate whether a player might improve in a new, more athletic environment, surrounded by team-mates with greater composure. They are looking for potential signings who can improve by 10 or 15 per cent. Versatility is also an attraction, and this is why Edwards pushed hard for the signings of James Milner and Fabinho.

It helps the scouts that Klopp’s philosophy is easy to follow. He held a couple of meetings with senior scouting figures at the point of his arrival, but they did not last too long because he wanted his points to be memorable. Scouts know they must find players who are capable of dealing with his demands. It is clear what tactical expectations are on a Liverpool full-back or midfielder. Without that clear picture, the job of the scout would be a lot harder and more mistakes would be made. There are non-negotiables when it comes to what a Liverpool player looks like physically, technically and in terms of character and personality. They must be robust and hungry for success. Klopp’s relentlessness translates into a work ethic throughout the club. Liverpool’s scouts never seem to take a break.

“They are at games all the time,” says one agent. “They’re very clever as well. Always asking questions, always approachable but they never tell you anything. They sit back and listen to what you’re saying very carefully. If you ask them who they are watching there seems to be a stock answer, ‘Just here to watch a game of football…’”

Whenever Edwards is told that his judgment and negotiating skills have been central to Liverpool’s rise, he is quick to layer praise elsewhere. Mention Salah’s goalscoring exploits to him and he reminds that Fallows was highly influential in convincing other senior figures at the club that the Egyptian was exactly what Klopp needed. Joe Gomez for a bargain-basement fee from Charlton Athletic? That signing was down to the persistence of Hunter.

While Fallows manages the scouting department on a day-to-day basis, Hunter covers more ground and is out watching players. Both arrived from Manchester City in 2012 after being placed on a period of gardening leave by their former club. This had a knock-on effect at Anfield that summer because most of the transfer decisions were instead made by Rodgers, with mixed success.

Fallows is highly qualified. He studied at the University of Leeds and at some point or another completed earned a UEFA A coaching badge. His work at ProZone resulted in a job offer from Bolton Wanderers where Sam Allardyce nicknamed him “Fingers” because he always seemed to be using a computer. After following Allardyce to Newcastle United, where he reviewed opponents and player performance, Allardyce was sacked and this led to a move for Fallows to City. Quietly, he became one of the pioneers in analytical scouting.

Fallows was respected at City for his talent and modesty. It was felt that his successors benefited most from some of the developments that were made under his guidance. He never complained, however, and worked long hours to ensure that he got things done. When he departed for Liverpool he left behind a feeling among those who knew both the person and the club best, that City’s superiors perhaps did not fully appreciate what they were letting go.

Hunter, a former Northern Ireland international who captained and managed Rushden & Diamonds, was City’s scout for Italy and this role became a lot harder when Roberto Mancini, an Italian, became manager. It was wondered whether Hunter’s influence would wane, with some questioning if there was even a need for the role considering Mancini was already only a phone call away from any influential figurehead in Serie A. Yet Hunter impressed a lot of people at City by persuading Mancini that the scouting operation in his own country was in safe hands. “He nailed everything down,” a source tells The Athletic. “By the end, everyone in Italy knew they had to go to Barry…”

With the help of Fallows and video, Hunter — from his position at ground level — was able to make more informed judgments about targets with Italian links. Aleksandar Kolarov was one such success story, while Hunter was also involved in the recruitment of Edin Dzeko from Wolfsburg because part of his remit was also in the Balkan region and the striker was a Bosnian international.

It was an exciting time to be at City, a club attempting to forge a new identity and armed with lots of money following Sheikh Mansour’s takeover in 2008. In scouting circles across Europe and the rest of the world, Fallows and Hunter essentially became the club’s unofficial spokespeople and this helped them become well connected. Because of City’s resources, Hunter concluded that his task was more about “keeping the bad ones away” in relation to players. Every agent on the planet knew about the possibilities at City and this meant he was dealing with a huge number of recommendations. It helped that he could go to Fallows, look at his records, and understand better straight away whether a lead was worth following.

Fallows and Hunter joined Liverpool four months after City were crowned as league champions for the first time in 44 years. The employees left behind in Manchester suspected they were persuaded to move because the job description at Anfield was more in keeping with what they wanted to do. “City mainly signed proven talent at this point while Liverpool were trying to recruit for the long term,” says another source in Manchester. “They were in control of some things at City but not everything. At Liverpool, destiny was in their hands entirely.”

Within a year, Liverpool had paid City £1 million to settle a data-breach incident which had involved alleged use of City’s account with Scout7. It is fair to say that during this period, the relationship between the clubs strained. Other members of City’s scouting and analysis department would follow the pair to Merseyside. While Julian Ward now looks after Liverpool’s players on loan at other clubs and Kevin Hunt has since left Liverpool having covered France, Andy Sayer remains in place in Germany and he was influential in the signing of Firmino from Hoffenheim five years ago.

The signing of the Brazilian, indeed, is an example of the way things work at Liverpool, a club which had notes on the forward from several years earlier when he failed a trial at Sao Paulo and instead went to the smaller club, Figueirense. These came from Fernando Troiani, Liverpool’s Buenos Aires-based head of South American scouting who works closely with another Argentine, Gonzalo Siegrist, previously the head scout for his country’s under-15s team before joining Liverpool in 2013.

The competition in the region is fierce, with 14 full-time scouts representing Manchester United and another 13 working on behalf of City. It is believed that over the past few years, Liverpool have added more scouts to their South American bureau and among their responsibilities is the sourcing of potential club partners who could work with Liverpool for strategic purposes.

Liverpool were criticised for their repeated use of the word “holistic” several years ago when it came to decision making but the approach is working now, particularly when it comes to recruitment.

Having started his scouting career at Manchester United, Altrincham-based Paul Goldrick has looked after Italy, Switzerland, Serbia and Croatia for Liverpool since joining from Aston Villa nine years ago. When Alisson Becker signed for Roma in 2016, he was asked by Hunter to keep an eye out. Troiani had earlier watched him for Internacional following a tip from John Achterberg, the goalkeeping coach who Klopp calls a “goalkeeper maniac” because of the way he pours over footage on his laptop from leagues across the world. Achterberg had originally been alerted to Alisson’s potential by former Liverpool keeper Alexander Doni after making his debut in 2013.

 

More recently, Achterberg pushed for the signing of young Brazilian goalkeeper Marcelo Pitaluga, who cost an initial fee of around £700,000 potentially rising to £1.8 million from Fluminense. Achterberg had scouted Pitaluga extensively since he was part of the Brazil squad that won the Under-17 World Cup in November 2019. He also enlisted the help of Alisson, who was asked to give his feedback and raved about his countryman’s potential. Alisson knew all about Pitagula as his brother, Muriel, plays for Fluminense.

Goldrick’s playing career in Greater Manchester had gone no further than the amateur levels but his advice on Alisson helped contribute towards a rounder picture of the goalkeeper’s talents. Liverpool’s recruitment department involves staff who have not played the game at a professional level but have worked hard as scouts for many years as well as former players, including Andy O’Brien, once a defender with Newcastle, who looks after the north of England, as well as Mark Gower — formerly a midfielder at Swansea — who takes care of the south.

What links them, according to a scout representing another Premier League club, is their commitment to want to work, as well as their subtlety. “It’s very frustrating,” he admits, referencing the suddenness of the deal brokered for Diogo Jota. “Secrets in football are rare now but Liverpool seem to be able to pull off deals without anyone knowing.”

 

Summary?

 

Cheers @Jimmy Squarefoot will read this in a bit

 

Very good read that, interesting insights into our scouting systems.

Moneyball

 

About how our scouting system has developed under fsg and Edwards and how it's quite different to the norm.

 

Our scouts are good

 

Very good read Jimmy.

 

Decent read that. Cheers @Jimmy Squarefoot

 

No probs lad - the Athletic has a lot of good content will try to post more if possible.

 

Didn't you do another one before? Should get one that pussy Zanjinho to do it when he's not running scared of Tobes

 

What does even mean?

I think to post articles quite often back in the day