The Aftermatch Verdict.

[Redprintt]

For the record all of his appearances under LJ were at right back.

Ok so both judges of a RB's necessary attributes are different to mine and tbf they are pros.
The more I see of the goal yesterday makes me wonder how bad Simpson must be.
The Boro winger 'stood Vyner up' and whoosh he was gone.
No doubt Vyner was well aware of what may happen, it makes no difference, I think he's too heavy and leaden for a RB.

When I said the same thing about Vyner after the Blackpool game you replied,
'All about opinions, Vyner made one mistake all game, ok it ended up costing us 2 points but he played well some of his tackling was superb'.
You also said in reply to Ashton, Vyner's naive and casual.
You may well be right but imo his biggest problem and one he'll struggle to overcome is his inability to turn.
An option I would suggest is have a midfielder double up on the winger and help Vyner that way.
Whether we have one is another matter.

I suggest this as an option as ROD so politely put it 'And to be honest that right hand side is still ****ed'.

 

[Jiffie]

Ok so both judges of a RB's necessary attributes are different to mine and tbf they are pros.
The more I see of the goal yesterday makes me wonder how bad Simpson must be.
The Boro winger 'stood Vyner up' and whoosh he was gone.
No doubt Vyner was well aware of what may happen, it makes no difference, I think he's too heavy and leaden for a RB.

When I said the same thing about Vyner after the Blackpool game you replied,
'All about opinions, Vyner made one mistake all game, ok it ended up costing us 2 points but he played well some of his tackling was superb'.
You also said in reply to Ashton, Vyner's naive and casual.
You may well be right but imo his biggest problem and one he'll struggle to overcome is his inability to turn.
An option I would suggest is have a midfielder double up on the winger and help Vyner that way.
Whether we have one is another matter.

I suggest this as an option as ROD so politely put it 'And to be honest that right hand side is still ****ed'.

I also pointed out in one reply that in the first half v Blackpool Vyner made 2 other mistakes IMHO. He tried to shepherd a ball out that which never had the legs to go out and had pocket picked almost resulting in a goal. Also right in front of us in the Dolman a ball came off of him and bounced high into touch. Instead of heading the ball a few rows into the Dolman he left it and ambled to take up a defensive position with his back to a quick throw in which totally took him out of the game. This is something he did far too often last season when there were replacement balls around the pitch. Yes up until his 92nd minute free kick fiasco he played well and his tackling was terrific, but so far this season he has made far too many mistakes.

There has been mention about Simpson, not necessarily by you but here is my take.

I will as usual reserve judgement on player who has not even made a handful of appearances whilst trying to gain fitness last season but has had a proper pre season this season to hopefully get fitter, I know it's a tradition of quite a few BCFC fans to write off players that we have just signed, Wilbraham comes quickly to mind.

 

[AshtonRed]

I also pointed out in one reply that in the first half v Blackpool Vyner made 2 other mistakes IMHO. He tried to shepherd a ball out that which never had the legs to go out and had pocket picked almost resulting in a goal. Also right in front of us in the Dolman a ball came off of him and bounced high into touch. Instead of heading the ball a few rows into the Dolman he left it and ambled to take up a defensive position with his back to a quick throw in which totally took him out of the game. This is something he did far too often last season when there were replacement balls around the pitch. Yes up until his 92nd minute free kick fiasco he played well and his tackling was terrific, but so far this season he has made far too many mistakes.

There has been mention about Simpson, not necessarily by you but here is my take.

I will as usual reserve judgement on player who has not even made a handful of appearances whilst trying to gain fitness last season but has had a proper pre season this season to hopefully get fitter, I know it's a tradition of quite a few BCFC fans to write off players that we have just signed, Wilbraham comes quickly to mind.

Wilbraham I thought was class as soon as I saw him, this guy has is too slow and old, plus I don’t like him. His experience may be good for the squad and obviously Pearson’s trusts him but playing wise he’s not what we need. Why else would he not have replaced Vyner against Boro.

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

1. Vyner has started crap and has been responsible for 2 incidents resulting in goals conceded (aided and abetted by Weimann for one) he has also in both games been incredibly casual putting us at risk in dangerous areas. He doesn't know how to close players down and does not put enough effort into preventing crosses.
2. I would lay a huge bet that most of the defensive training has been on just this. But no coach not even LJ or Pep can be blamed when players like Vyner and Weimann make unforced schoolboy errors or missing very good chances. All 3 goals conceded are pretty much down to 2 players, not the defence as a whole.
3. If you are talking about Kalas I could not agree more, fans are constantly telling us that he is premiership material, so where are all his premiership suitors?
4. Totally agree, but where we differ is you claim that the serial failures can be coached to be better, something that has not happened for more than 2 seasons and 3 managers, as our back up squad proved Tuesday night too many are not up for the fight, had they been Pearson could select some of them for the Reading game without a second thought and total confidence but not for the first time they let themselves down.
5. The first sentence is correct, and I agree about the creative midfielder especially given that Palmer has done nothing as a creative outlet so far. I disagree about leaders we have 2 in midfield and in both games we have more than held our own, and although you won't recognise it they have been our main creative outlet, which is yet another indictment on Palmer. Weimann is not and will never be a midfielder, Nagy doesn't want to be here, Massengo has not weighed in with a single assist or goal since arriving.

NB Onfer most of this is my opinion backed up by the evidence of performances so far, the highlighted is fact.

I notice that you have a tendency to go after certain players, o’Dowda & Paterson last..this season seems to be Weimann & Vyner, being the targets along with Palmer and now Massengo (who has hardly featured and is highly rated by NP) being the main reason of our failure..
yes, a couple of mistakes were there for all to see but personally I think it’s not just those two are to blame for our poor form.. the whole setup, creativity and team not being in tune with each other is lacking.. our passing and decision making seems to be all over the place..
Watching Pearson’s post match interview won’t be afraid of dropping players that he feels isn’t up for it.. so be interesting his set up for the next couple of games..

 

[Jiffie]

Wilbraham I thought was class as soon as I saw him, this guy has is too slow and old, plus I don’t like him. His experience may be good for the squad and obviously Pearson’s trusts him but playing wise he’s not what we need. Why else would he not have replaced Vyner against Boro.

You may have thought Wilbraham was class and so did I, it was evident from the first game of the season at Sheffield United, but sadly quite a few wrote him off before even watching him play for us.

I haven't seen him play this season so don't know if he is too old (same age as Wilbraham was when he joined us) or too slow. I have no feelings towards him as person because I don't know him. I have no idea why Pearson sent on Kalas and not Simpson and probably neither do you. But I will still give him a chance until I see the sort of serial mistakes ala Vyner.

Vyner has undoubted talent but really does have to cut out the mistakes, it's costing us points. Simpson has cost us any yet.

 

[Jiffie]

I notice that you have a tendency to go after certain players, o’Dowda & Paterson last..this season seems to be Weimann & Vyner, being the targets along with Palmer and now Massengo (who has hardly featured and is highly rated by NP) being the main reason of our failure..
yes, a couple of mistakes were there for all to see but personally I think it’s not just those two are to blame for our poor form.. the whole setup, creativity and team not being in tune with each other is lacking.. our passing and decision making seems to be all over the place..
Watching Pearson’s post match interview won’t be afraid of dropping players that he feels isn’t up for it.. so be interesting his set up for the next couple of games..

Weimann and Vyner have cost us points in both games, surely it's fair to point that out? Palmer has created nothing but he is supposed to be our creative hub and as far as Massengo is concerned I stated FACTS, he has not supplied one assist or scored a goal since being here, what is possibly wrong about that?

We should be sitting on 4 points and not 1 point, the individual errors have to stop and that is the one thing that no coach can put a stop to. Instead of being able to concentrate on the smaller issues with our performance, we are now in a position where we have to get a result and soon and that is far from ideal. Middlesborough won the points on Saturday but I would wager that Warnock is far from happy with their overall performance, they obviously look a safer bet than we do at the moment but I don't see them as frightening the top 6.

Of course there were stray passes on Saturday, but the biggest mistakes in the game led to us conceding 2 goals and one our centre backs having take booking with an hour to go because of a poor pass in a dangerous area.

I only call it as I see it, I am sure eventually ODowda will have a good game and go on a consistent run of games and maybe even Vyner and Weimann and I will be first to praise them. But as it stands their individual mistakes have cost us points.

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

Weimann and Vyner have cost us points in both games, surely it's fair to point that out? Palmer has created nothing but he is supposed to be our creative hub and as far as Massengo is concerned I stated FACTS, he has not supplied one assist or scored a goal since being here, what is possibly wrong about that?

We should be sitting on 4 points and not 1 point, the individual errors have to stop and that is the one thing that no coach can put a stop to. Instead of being able to concentrate on the smaller issues with our performance, we are now in a position where we have to get a result and soon and that is far from ideal. Middlesborough won the points on Saturday but I would wager that Warnock is far from happy with their overall performance, they obviously look a safer bet than we do at the moment but I don't see them as frightening the top 6.

Of course there were stray passes on Saturday, but the biggest mistakes in the game led to us conceding 2 goals and one our centre backs having take booking with an hour to go because of a poor pass in a dangerous area.

I only call it as I see it, I am sure eventually ODowda will have a good game and go on a consistent run of games and maybe even Vyner and Weimann and I will be first to praise them. But as it stands their individual mistakes have cost us points.

That's one way of seeing it...just not my way..
If the team fail to create, unable to make or take chances, press and pressure the opposition to make mistakes then eventually we will fall short and it will be us that will make those mistakes. Yesterday's game tbf was quite messy, we looked ok in first 10/15mins but then sat back, allowed them to play their own game.
Our intensity is either short lived or non existent.....the whole team lacked, the whole team IMO was at fault but it was individual mistakes led to their goals..
You could say Weimann winning the free kick led to our goal..but that's not the whole story is it?
You manage to single individual mistakes being our downfall, but I think it's more team performance that lets us down..

 

[Jiffie]

That's one way of seeing it...just not my way..
If the team fail to create, unable to make or take chances, press and pressure the opposition to make mistakes then eventually we will fall short and it will be us that will make those mistakes. Yesterday's game tbf was quite messy, we looked ok in first 10/15mins but then sat back, allowed them to play their own game.
Our intensity is either short lived or non existent.....the whole team lacked, the whole team IMO was at fault but it was individual mistakes led to their goals..
You could say Weimann winning the free kick led to our goal..but that's not the whole story is it?
You manage to single individual mistakes being our downfall, but I think it's more team performance that lets us down..

You cannot get away from the fact that those individual mistakes have cost so far 3 points from 2 games.

Anybody can be fouled by the way.

PS:- I would never expect it to be your way of seeing things.

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

You cannot get away from the fact that those individual mistakes have cost so far 3 points from 2 games.

Anybody can be fouled by the way.

Nope...the whole team performance cost us those points....had we created more and scored more chances then those mistakes would have been cancelled out..Fact.
The best defenders in the world make mistakes....another fact..

 

[Jiffie]

Nope...the whole team performance cost us those points....had we created more and scored more chances then those mistakes would have been cancelled out..Fact.
The best defenders in the world make mistakes....another fact..

So if individuals carrying on making individual mistakes leading to goals being conceded or great chances not being converted, that is a collective fault and not an individual fault and that is fact?

It's like being in the twilight zone.

We should be sat on 4 points and fine tuning the problems that still are there but we find ourselves because of individual errors sat on 1 point and desperate for a win that is fact.

 

[AshtonRed]

So if individuals carrying on making individual mistakes leading to goals being conceded or great chances not being converted, that is a collective fault and not an individual fault and that is fact?

It's like being in the twilight zone.

We should be sat on 4 points and fine tuning the problems that still are there but we find ourselves because of individual errors sat on 1 point and desperate for a win that is fact.

One 4’s point is if we played better as a team the defence wouldn’t be put under pressure so much which causes individual errors. He’s got a point .

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

So if individuals carrying on making individual mistakes leading to goals being conceded or great chances not being converted, that is a collective fault and not an individual fault and that is fact?

It's like being in the twilight zone.

We should be sat on 4 points and fine tuning the problems that still are there but we find ourselves because of individual errors sat on 1 point and desperate for a win that is fact.

Every team and every player will make mistakes, even the best teams, defensively and offensively...that's the nature of the beast....team performance IMO which was poor against Boro and should have been better against Blackpool & FGR..
Of course if the same players make the same mistakes over and over again, you would expect the manager to act..