I was wondering iff any of you are old enough or up on your swans history to either give info or a link (wickepedia wasnt much help ) on Swansea town 1946-47 and 1947-48 seasons ? I have some old programs, complimentary season ticket, games played and scores, players passes/addmission tickets, training rules & players instructions and photos etc that have the name Gareth Hopkins on some of them who i believe played for our club on the right wing back then the manager was Haydn Green . They make intresting reading. I also wonder if this sort of thing has any historical value and how they could be appraised ? any intrest or help would be appreciated.
Give me time, swantastic. I have some material I can look through for you. Be back if I find something.
Swantastic, I will see what my Old Man has. When he moved to a smaller house last year following my Mother's death, we found loads of sporting memorabilia from the late 1940s - programmes, newspaper cuttings etc - all of which he has kept.
swantastic here is a link for all the fixtures and results in the 1946/47 season and many other seasons http://www.11v11.com/teams/swansea-city/tab/matches/season/1947
I will put some extracts from a book up on here tonight. Was a pivotal time for the club and Haydn Green is one of our top 5 managers. Despite suffering relegation, after the sale of Trevor Ford, Green's transfer dealings (and youngsters he brought through) were the foundation for our success in the 1950s....a golden period. Also our reserves won the 1st ever Football Combination Cup (reserves cup), the side was made up of 9 local lads.
all i can offer is a brentford prog 3 apr 53, barnsley v swans 22 aug 56, swans v rotherham 31 oct 59 pre 1060
Thank lads . Mabon thats a good link the same fixtures there and results are written in the players pass books i have green 46-47 & blue 47-48 a couple of discrepiancies in scores though ! Terrorwit it was as you say just before the golden era in the 50`s on the 46-47 green booklet pass it shows combination cup semifinal Swans 3 Chelsea 1 also mentions Swans 2 Arsenal 1 and i think it says Tottenham final 14th June score not shown though ? after Walter Whittaker Haydn Green was secretary/manager 39 to 47 before Billy Mc Candless took overtill 1955 There were over 120 fixtures a season for the team in the pass booklets inc welsh league games and combination cup games plus finals ! I am particularly intrested in Gareth Hopkins who i think had his debut for the swans on 28/8/1947. In the 11th oct 1947 Swansea Town v Haverfordwest welsh league division 1 programme i have it shows him on right wing No. 7 with Allchurch ,Parsons,Murray,Ridsdale,Williams,Newell,a.n.other,Jackson,Tanner and the keeper Roberts. There was an A.Allchurch playing for Haverfordwest to ? I think Hopkins was from Pontardulais . I think he played for caerau athletic afc after the swans i have his green booklet for 1952-53 & 53-54 seasons. A team photo and some playing all in white with black and white hooped socks with what looks like smelting chimneys in background like the one opposite the liberty ? I wonder how long he played for the swans and how good he was & is he still around ? There are a few other things including a 15/3/1947 swansea town v bristol city and 6/9/1947 v brighton & hov programmes . Also i wonder iff they are worth anything ? THANKS .
Winger Gareth Hopkins helped Swansea win the London Combination Cup in 1947. Locally born, he served in the RAF during the Second World War and joined Swansea as a part-time professional in August 1946. He made his League debut in the 3-0 victory at home to Watford in August 1947 and also appeared in that month's 1-1 draw against IpswichTown. Moving to Llanelly in August 1948, he later played for Milford United, Carmarthen Town, Caerau Athletic and Port Talbot where he became secretary. He worked at the Dynevor Works in Morriston, then spent over 30 years in accounts at Abbey Works in Port Talbot.
Thanks Bongo thats great info some of the other items i have about him make more sense now where did you find it ?
Its on the official Swans site ..hurrying to catch the UEFA final i forgot to post link...http://www.swanseacity.net/page/PastPlayers/0,,10354~1171087,00.html
Gareth Hopkins must have played most of his football in the reserves/youth teams as in David Farmer's 'Swansea City 1912-1982' his league appearances are given as 2 (what a time to play for the reserves though! First ever winners of the Combination Cup, beating big clubs along the way). Sorry I can't help much, only info on him....and have no idea whether there is a market for that kind of memorabilia. Did Hopkins play for Swansea Schoolboys prior to signing pro? If so there's a good chance that he played with Glynn Davies, Terry Medwin and John Charles. Here's what this book has to say on those 2 seasons though, might be useful to have some background info to put the memorabilia in context; "By the end of 1945 Trevor Ford had scored 24 goals and whilst the swans were in the bottom half of their league, they were among the highest scorers. Former Swan W.Y. Brown was reported as having watched the team play at Fulham and to have been impressed with their display. At the Vetch Reg Harvey was appointed as full time assistant secretary to Haydn Green. It seemed as though the tasks associated with the secretary's job were more exacting than the manager had realised. In the new year the press carried many comments on the success of the Vetch men in their games against London clubs. Various hypotheses were put forward to explain these results. Among them were: 'it's a compact ground' 'the crowd is on top of the players giving a cramping atmosphere' 'it's the Welsh fervour' and 'we have to be up at six to go there'. Why these reasons were applicable only to London clubs and not to those from the midlands were never explained. By mid February 1946 thousands of additional railway sleepers had been laid to increase the ground capacity, and on Thursday 21 February the new arrangements were put to the test. The visitors were Derby County, who fielded a side full of famous names. Their captain was Jack Nicholas, the Swansea born son of the father of the same name who had given great service to the Vetch club in it's earlier days. The inside forwards were the famous 'Raich' Carter and Irishman Peter Doherty, whilst at centre-half was Leon Leuty, an English International. It was the side which was to win the F.A. Cup final later in that season. On the morning of the game Nicholas read the lesson at the morning assembly at his old school-Dynevor. In the afternoon registers marked at that school and, it seemed, most others in Swansea showed an epidemic of absences. To a boy those absentees braved the wrath of the following morning in order to see their heroes combat the Derby team. Whilst the Vetch men were defeated 2-3, every one of those lads and the crowd as a whole felt that they had been well rewarded. The sole concern that afternoon revolved around the railings which had collapsed at the small bank end. 'a possible disaster was averted by good sense', the police said; only 5 people were slightly injured. By mid March the 'Ford is going' saga continued with the usual denials. Plans to cover the north side of the ground for a sum of £6900 were rejected by the council, but Haydn Green said that he did not regard that as the final word on the matter. At the end of March, Green was quoted as saying that he could have obtained £22000 for 3 players, but he was not selling. Nevertheless, when Liverpool offered £10000 for Ford the rumours spread that he had signed. One result was a telegram from 14 bitterly disappointed Swansea boys decrying the sale. Chairman Abe Freedman retorted that Ford was "still a Swansea player and would not be sold". In the final game of the season against Luton, Ford scored his 40th goal of that term. Whilst it did not count strictly as a club record since it had not been made in the English league proper, it was a formidable total. Significantly no other Swansea player had scored more than 9 goals. It was hardly surprising that the rumours about the pending transfer of the young forward continued throughout the close season. He was by then an international having played at centre-forward in the match against Ireland at Cardiff. At the end of the 46-47 season Swansea Town found themselves in 21st position in the 2nd division. As a result they were relegated to Division 3 (south) along with Newport County. Despite the side's lack of points it had retained a considerable following throughout the season. Home gates averaged more than 21 thousand whilst 26,584 attended an Easter holiday match against Coventry. The season had been eventful in several respects, one of which was probably also instrumental in the downfall of Haydn Green. Following the first 5 games of the season, the club had gained only 3 points and had been beaten 1-6 at the Vetch by a Bradford P.A. side in which a player called Len Shackleton had been outstanding.......
...Green realised that he had to strengthen the side and went to Ireland to seek new players. His brief from the board was to obtain 1 player, but he returned with 2; Norman Lockhart and Sam McCrory. Both made their debuts against Southampton on 3 October, each of them scoring to add to a brace from the ever threatening Ford. On the 11 December Green returned to Ireland to sign Jim Feeney, a classical full back who was to become a firm favourite at the Vetch. As Feeney made his debut a young player called Allchurch was included in the club's Welsh League side for that afternoon. Like Feeney, he too, was soon to grace the international scene. Green's efforts in the transfer market were without precedent in the history of Swansea Town. No other manager had ever spent so much money on players, and whilst Green believed that the big fees would be quickly reimbursed through larger crowds, his board, it seems, we're not as sure. It was true that they were able to report that they were "without any of the old bank overdraft", but their manager's activities were an obvious concern to them. Apart from any other factor they were perturbed to find that in the strictest sense no proper accounts were being kept. On 10 January, after it had been stated that 6 clubs were negotiating with Swansea Town for Trevor Ford's signature, he joined Aston Villa for a fee of £10000 plus a player-Tommy Dodds. Some said that that was the fee which ensured relegation, for in the 19 games after Ford left, the side scored more than 1 goal on only 5 occasions. More significantly, they lost by the odd goal on 6 occasions and drew twice, when better penetration in front of goal might have resulted in a more favourable outcome. At the A.G.M. in February, Haydn Green responding to a question from a shareholder, stated that "we have too many good players on our books to go into the 3rd division". It was a confident statement which, in part at least, was true. The all conquering side which returned to division 2 three years later was comprised of players who , with 2 exceptions, were under Green's command at the time. Whatever else that might be said about Haydn Green, his purchases were a testimony to his astuteness in the transfer market. It was to be more than 3 decades before his record in this respect was seriously challenged. Chairman Abe Freedman, speaking at the same meeting was able to report a reduction in the club's debit balance as a result of the previous season's working from £13000 to £5000. He also sounded an optimistic note, claiming that "throughout the country the Swans are regarded as a team of talents". He underlined this statement by informing the shareholders that the size and frequency of offers which had been made to the club for it's players were "without precedent in the history of the club". All of these assurances were received eagerly by shareholders and fans alike since the team was then 4th from bottom of the 2nd division.
One diversion from these worries occurred during the local university rag week, when students kidnapped the Swans winger, Ernie Jones, on the morning before the match. They demanded a £50 ransom from the club on his return. Green refused and Jonesmwas returned in time for the game. Three months later the manager said 'yes' to Tottenham and the winger joined the London club for £7000. As the season progressed, Green made strenuous efforts to buy a replacement for Ford, but without success. The blizzard conditions which affected the country during the late winter did not help his cause either for what looked like the beginning of several successful spells were disrupted by postponements. At the beginning of April hopes were raised of a revival when the side won at Leicester. However the revival did not ensue and on 10 May a victory over fellow strugglers, Sheffield Wednesday was essential to have any chance of avoiding relegation. This was achieved in tense conditions, but subsequent defeats by Barnsley and Millwall finally consigned the Swans to the 3rd division. Haydn Green's brave words of the previous February were, now, remembered with sad irony by the board. Within 6 months he was to resign. Despite the gloom of relegation, the season finished on a high. The reserve XI had done extremely well in it's league and had won it's way into the semi-final of the newly established Football Combination Cup. They won that match by defeating Chelsea in front of a large crowd and progressed to the final. Their opponents in the final were Arsenal Reserves and the 'neutral' venue was White Hart Lane. Despite the disadvantage of having to play a side who was virtually at home, the Swans (including 9 locals) won 2-1 and this made a piece of football history. The Vetch club's name was the first to be etched on the base of that trophy. In retrospect, the failure of the Swans to win sufficient matches in the league was something of a mystery. The team had played highly attractive football and had been acclaimed both by opposing managers and by the press wherever they went. Nevertheless, as the title of a serial in a contemporary boys' comic suggested "it's goals that count". Green as yet still in charge of the club's affairs, was well aware of that.
PROMOTION AND A CHANGE OF MANAGER During the previous season the Swans had been acclaimed wherever they went for the quality of their football. Thus, in the summer of 1947, sanguine Swans fans were forecasting an early return to Division 2. One happy omen, which must have encouraged them, was the return of Joe Sykes as assistant trainer. The former captain had after all been a key figure in the 1924-25 promotion side. Sykes was to assist Frank Barson, a former England centre-half, who came to the Vetch with a reputation as a 'hard man'. At the end of July, manager Green, made 2 further signings; Jack O'Driscoll, who came from Cork for £3000 and Frank Rawcliffe, who cost the same amount from Newport. Just before the season started, they were joined by a 3rd newcomer, 'Rory' Keane, another Irishman. Keane and O'Driscoll, along with Feeney, Lockhart, and McCrory from the previous season, we're to illustrate the effectiveness of Green's 'scouting' connections in Ireland. All were to gain International recognition. 1947-1948 The club's first season in division 3 since 1924-25 began in disappointing fashion. After 5 games, only 3 points had been gained. It was far from the hoped for promotion form. At the beginning of September the new centre forward Rawcliffe was dropped but responded to his critics by scoring 7 goals in a reserve match at Bristol. He must have felt cold comfort, though, to read, during the following week, that the Swans had made an offer for Tommy Lawton. It was an amazing revelation which excited Swansea supporters, who were now beginning to believe they had a manager who actually bought good players. Whether Green's boldness in making the bid had been the 'final straw' in the eyes of the directors is difficult to establish. Whatever the reason, 10 days later Green announced his resignation. Despite it's brevity, Haydn Green's contribution to Swansea soccer was considerable. In local folklore his tenure is thought of, simply, as the prelude to the success achieved by Billy McCandless. Yet it was far more than that. Green bought and sold players astutely and signed several local players who were to make their names after he left. Whatever his failings, it is clear that Billy McCandless owed a great deal to Green's astuteness with regard to the team that the Irishman inherited. On 27 September for example, six weeks before McCandless joined the club Green's side, which thrashed Leyton Orient 5-0, read; Parry, Feeney, Keane, Paul, Weston, Burns, O'Driscoll, McCrory, James, Squires and Lockhart. Scrine was already on the club's books, and replaced Lockhart when that player was transferred to Coventry (before McCandless came to the Vetch). Thus the promotion side of the following season differed only in the persons of Richards and Lucas. Whilst both these players made magnificent contributions to the promotion effort, the bulk of the side awaited the new manager on his arrival. Green had matched, if not surpassed, Bradshaw as a successful buyer of players. It was to be more than 30 years before his record was seriously challenged. Billy McCandless, who was to become something of a legend in South Wales, came to the Vetch in mid-November 1947. He arrived having been the manager at both Cardiff and Newport when those clubs achieved promotion from division 3 (south). Thus he came with the possibility of achieving a 'hat-trick' of promotions. He had the advantage of sound secretarial back-up from Trevor Hoskins and Reg Harvey, who had re-established the administrative systems which had lapsed somewhat on S.B. Williams' retirement. In the month before McCandless arrived, Norman Lockhart was transferred to Coventry for a fee more than 3 times that which Green had paid for him. Frank Squires, the pre-war schoolboy star, was also sold to Plymouth-for £7000. These 2 transactions resulted in a considerable surplus over purchase price for the club, this emphasising Green's astuteness. It was that money which enabled McCandless to make his most successful purchase - Billy Lucas. At the time when McCandless came to the Vetch, the club had lost only 1 game of it's previous 10. It had 21 points and was in the top third of the league table. With an unchanged side, 3 further matches were won in succession before the team after being reduced to 10 was beaten in Nottingham. By the beginning of March, McCandless had tried several reserves in the first team, including Ronnie Howells, Payne, Eastham, Powell and Morris. It appeared that he was using what remained of the season to gain an insight into the calibre of his staff. Then on 16 March he signed Billy Lucas from Swindon Town for a club record fee of £11000. Lucas was to prove a significant purchase. When the season came to an end the Swans were 5th in their division and their form angered well for the coming campaign. The following season the Swans ripped up the 3rd division breaking most club records. Most wins in a row - 17 Most wins in a season - 27 Most home wins in a season - 21 (drew 1, were undefeated at home) Best goal difference in a season - +53
Swantastic, sorry not to have replied sooner. Seems Terror has the same primary source as I do and, by the time I found it, he had done an excellent job in quoting from it. So no point in repeating what he has posted. My late brother in law (much older than me) died several years ago and left his scrapbook to his son. Now Jack played for Swansea schoolboys and scored in a 1-0 win over West Ham boys at Upton Park in the schoolboy cup competition just before the war. He had trials for Swansea Town just after the war but didn't make it. He did, however, keep a comprehensive scrapbook of those post war years and my nephew is trawling the family archives (attics!!) to see if he can find it. If he does and there is anything of interest, I will post it here.
