No I don't. I'm merely pointing out the fact that it would be possible.
And if a visa is rejected, what is stopping them entering the UK anyway please?
Off Topic So, what now?
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No I don't. I'm merely pointing out the fact that it would be possible.
And if a visa is rejected, what is stopping them entering the UK anyway please?
For the sake of argument, if there is another referendum what do you believe would be the outcome and would it solve anything?. Genuine question
For me, Yes! Whilst I did not vote as I am based outside the UK (but now returning next month) I would have voted leave - it was never solely about immigrants for me as it was for many. For me it was a combination of that, but mainly the legislation imposed upon us by Brussels, and the lack of value I perceive we get from the EU vs countries like Spain.
Plus if Dublin and it's Guinness is so great, many may stay in Ireland anyway....
Let’s not kid ourselves; there is no solution to this problem that will suit everyone. It’s so divisive and has got people very passionate in their beliefs about what is best for our country.
A second (!!) referendum might guide our politicians to choose which way to go between the 3 options; May’s deal, no deal or remain - but the country would still be divided.
People voted the way they did for different reasons; some Remainers voted that way because they love the whole ethos of the European project. Others, like myself, voted Remain because I didn’t think the leap into the unknown was worth the risk, whilst details of what ‘Leave’ would look like were based on opinions and hypothesis.
Likewise, Brexiteers voted for different reasons too and will have different opinions on May’s deal. You can see by observing the arch-Brexiteer politicians (Farage, Rees-Mogg, Boris, Gove etc) that they don’t even agree amongst themselves in the way forward - and they certainly don’t want May’s deal.
I guess what I’m saying is no a second referendum wouldn’t ‘fix’ it and we would all live happily ever after, but it might give an idea as to which is the most popular way to go.
Whatever happens, a huge number of people are going to be mightily pissed off and there will be a lot of trouble.
Oh - and to those who say that a second referendum would be going against the ‘will of the people’ - please be reminded that the 2016 referendum was actually the THIRD referendum we have held on this topic. Why would another be going against the will of the people but overturning the result of the 1975 referendum was not? To use their argument, the ‘people’ spoke in 1975 so they were betrayed in 2016.
I suspect that many who voted to Remain in 1975 now voted for Brexit. People do change their minds - especially when more details become available - which works both ways.
If there was, I think it should be the deal v remain as no deal is just unworkable. But honestly, I think remain would edge it, and I think it would solve basically nothing.
That's not me being biased. Remain led the polls last time and still lost. But Remain are a little further ahead this time around, and given the facts about older generations having died since then, I think remain would just about win, but to be honest it would be neck and neck again.
And how much did you enjoy working/living outside the UK? Do you not feel a bit bad stopping future generations from doing this in Europe so easily? I'm lucky in that I have Irish citizenship so it doesn't apply to me, but it will to many others.
I've applied to jump ship and head off to Canada for a while anyways so this will impact me on a personal level less so now.
And how much did you enjoy working/living outside the UK? Do you not feel a bit bad stopping future generations from doing this in Europe so easily? I'm lucky in that I have Irish citizenship so it doesn't apply to me, but it will to many others.
I've applied to jump ship and head off to Canada for a while anyways so this will impact me on a personal level less so now.
Nobody will be stopped moving abroad through this Rob, they will just possibly need a visa now, as I had to get for Australia and I'm sure you will for Canada!
Impossible to know where Europe will sit on the scale mate. Australia and Canada are particularly easy to move to. The USA is almost impossible.
Really?
It may have changed but Oz was particularly difficult a few years back - especially for Brits. Paul Keating was trying to boost his republican chances so he didn’t want pro-royal Brits spoiling his plans. He imported voters from SE Asia with no cultural ties to the UK.
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Could be way off then but I know a good 5 or 6 people who have moved there in recent years. Some have subsequently come back but none had jobs out there awaiting them.
As rob explained , another referendum is likely to a small marginal vote to remain , that will solve nothing , the problem with this vote over the one in the early seventies is we haven’t enacted this vote yet, to have another vote before you’ve delivered on the result of the last one is the issue , it flies in the face of democracy and makes voting irrelevant.
Yeah absolutely, and I do agree with that. But the counter point would be that to leave (particularly in a no deal scenario) would cause irreversible damage. So if it did go to pot and we decided we wanted back in, we wouldn't be able to go back and get the deal we currently have with the EU, which in fairness is the best any EU country has. So it is tricky.
Honestly, the tories have got us in this mess. Firstly by Cameron triggering the vote and assuming remain would win, when in reality he should have defined what 'leave' meant slightly better. And then May, by triggering A50 too early, when she should have at least decided the type of deal she would go for before triggering it. Instead, she activated A50, then just bumbled through any deal she could get, which is now (as we all know) a bad one.
Correct me if I’m wrong , I don’t think she had too much of a choice in fairness once we voted out , as until she did the EU would not begin to negotiate a framework for leaving , this argument has been used recently by people that at the time criticised her for not triggering A50 sooner than she did.
Corbyn wanted to activate A50 on the 24th June, 2016, 9:11 am, way before the Tories did.
'Jeremy Corbyn has said Article 50 must be invoked immediately and that a Leave vote prevailed because of anger against marginalisation and austerity.'
https://labourlist.org/2016/06/corbyn-article-50-has-to-be-invoked-now/
'Jeremy Corbyn has said Article 50 must be invoked immediately and that a Leave vote prevailed because of anger against marginalisation and austerity.'
https://labourlist.org/2016/06/corbyn-article-50-has-to-be-invoked-now/
That's a good point actually. In fairness no matter what we tried to get, we were always going to get a bad deal. But I still think we could have decided beforehand what we wanted, rather than just meander through it like countless Brexit secretaries did.
Corbyn is a leaver at heart isn't he. And while he is a nice bloke I think, throughout these negotiations he's proven himself to be as useless as May.
That is something we can both agree about, the useless bit, apart from that there is nothing nice about Corbyn he is a completely tinpot politician.
It’s too late now, but I still believe if we had kept no deal on the table EU would have given us a better deal, as it is we didn’t , now we are left with a not very good deal or no deal.
The alternative is to go against the will of the people and revoke A50, or have another vote, which as explained above by Rob will just confuse matters even more.
Though not ideal. given a choice between these scenarios I’m leaning towards no deal.
Any of the other options would keep us on a never ending cycle, like a gergil on a wheel , with no end ever in sight. Also if we decide at a later date to join again we can negotiate a new deal from scratch. Some (like Rob) would argue we’ll never get as good a deal again, but bearing in mind the amount we contribute to the EU I’m not as pessimistic,
The alternative is to go against the will of the people and revoke A50, or have another vote, which as explained above by Rob will just confuse matters even more.
Though not ideal. given a choice between these scenarios I’m leaning towards no deal.
Any of the other options would keep us on a never ending cycle, like a gergil on a wheel , with no end ever in sight. Also if we decide at a later date to join again we can negotiate a new deal from scratch. Some (like Rob) would argue we’ll never get as good a deal again, but bearing in mind the amount we contribute to the EU I’m not as pessimistic,
The trouble is Rob, his appeal was he stuck to his principles regardless, you can’t do that as a leader , you have to unite different factions, unfortunately it’s a completely different skill set .