All we done today was fling the ball in to the box, Shelvey, Enrique, Gerrard, Sterling and Downing.. All just aimlessly lofting the ball in to the box. Carroll would of been perfect today, yet we had NO strikers on the bench at all. These are the fine details in football, and they're the difference between 3 points and 1 point. I can't help but feel very disappointed right now.
Actually think it proves BR's point. If when we run out of ideas & current players can't be arsed we lump it forward, a big CF would allow them to hide. This team does not so those players have questions to answer don't they?
We wasn't so much lumping it forward, we got in to some good crossing positions but we never got enough red shirts in to the box. I guess you could argue there lies the problem, I just can't help but think something needs to be tweeked, it's frustrating knowing nothing can be done untill January.
The thing that annoys me is players not looking up before crossing it. It is clear as day that there is no Liverpool players in the box!!! And Carroll playing wouldn't alter this, he's hardly ever in the box when you need him to be, he's usually still trying to catch up with play
And thank you Charlie Adam. Has said exactly what BR has said & everyone including us have ignored. It is NOT about the length of the pass its making sure the pass goes to our player! The reason he doesn't like long ball default is that it gives it to the opposition more times than the short! And it's an easy out for lazy/Shiite players. Jesus; why do we allow ourselves to be pointed in a direction by has Beens Having said that: short passes going nowhere are almost as bad.
We shouldn't be in a position where we are having to launch a ball. We need to play with the intensity of the 1st 20 mins and last 20 mins for a 90 minute period.
Frank, The issue isn't the movement of the ball, you are doing that well. The issue is the movement of the Players, or lack of it, to give Suarez his due, he is working the whole front line, but everyone else, particularly in midfield is static, you hardly ever have any breaking from there, and so the chances come to Players surrounded by defenders, with little or no options, they snatch at at it and miss.
David, I agree. It's why I hate this fixation on how far the ball travels in a single pass. A negative pass be it too speculative or too safe is bad. Now I'm coming from a position that our entire team is not a "league winning team" so going from that basis. Our Midfield has a DM who doesn't want to be there because he isn't one. An AM who for all his skill can't put 90 minutes of the fitness & pace (id also say discipline, plenty will disagree) required to move as much as you quite rightly suggest is required for this style to work. A Other who is too inexperienced to know what they should do & when to do it. A temporary toxic combination. This is transition. We can't harp that we have heard that before & say you'll give the new manager time. They are both true. 3 years, BR's players, BR's style then ill judge. Don't confuse me whinging on match day with a lack of loyalty or belief. Or a lack of ability to criticise short falls.
This article I wrote on Suarez and our system will answer your question on why Carroll doesnt fit in. http://www.not606.com/showthread.ph...ks-why-it-will-stay-and-where-Walcott-fits-in
Excellent points allround. There is a few things missing, and I reckon with the return of Lucas who is becoming more and more like Didi Hamann in that he can calm things down in the middle of the park. There is far too much panic in there in the moment. Joe Allen is having to play like a defensive midfielder as the above poster has said, and he's not one. We're getting over-crowded when there is no pressure on the ball, its very nervy, Joe Allen is uncharacteristically giving the ball away. Suso is a very good young player, but he hasn't got the physical strength yet to impose himself on the midfield. Nuri Sahin is a talented young footballer, but his game isn't grabbing a game by the neck, his game is getting into the box when someone else has done so. Jonjo Shelvey has shown a serious amount of aggression to impose himself, but he too is hit and miss. If I could pick my preferred midfield three, it would be Liucas, Allem and one from Gerrard, Shelvey and Sahin. Joe Allen would be able to play his game and that is further up the pitch from Lucas.
Carroll - who has failed to score for a team that is suited to his ability, is not the answer for us. As mentioned above, players will become lazy if they see a target man like him up front, which isn't his own fault. Rodgers is trying to drill it into our players not to pass the ball aimlessly. Ironically, it was a long ball from Enrique which saved the game. But I can also see why BR wants to get rid of Enrique - his play going forward is brainless and he likes to play the long ball.
Carroll was never in the box anyway. Remember all the crosses that went to no one last year, cause Carroll likes to hang outside the box and swing his left boot at the ball. He's great for a Goalkeeper to lump the ball forward and potentially win a knock down, other than that he didnt/doesn't really do anything.
That pretty much sums it all up. I'm 100% convinced all Brendan is lacking for his system to work is a goalscorer. The midfield is very mobile, and when you have someone with feet like Luis Suarez who can get out of the tightest of situations with a slip of the hips, its very easy to feed such a player.
ok so i'll enter the dabte with the following points. 1. long ball v short ball. In my opinion this sis a complete falicy. Lets just be quite clear about the difference between a hoof and a pass. When gerrard passes it 40/50 yards right to the feet of a winger its not a hoof, prime exmaples last weekend but unfortunatley our team has nobody i nthe box for that player to then supply. Contrast this to a carragher hoof ball. a floated high ball that someone can "compete for" 2. now lets look at the laze/****e player arguement. So we scored off suzrez being on the shoulder of the last man and a ball over the top that we was expecting. great whatever. Lets go back 3 generations of strikers if you will. Fowler, owen , torres.... what do they do? they play on the shoulder of the last man.. they want fast ball... not hoof ball.... every single one wanted gerrard to think forward pass the monet he got it and play them in.. it could be along the ground it could be in the air like sure's chance or it could be to feet.... hell it cvould be via said winger but they wanted the ball early, and they wanted it in behind. contrast... the "bad days" when torres stood there looking terribly frustrated as carragher and others just tossed aimless balls up at him to "compete" in the air for. this is what we need to avoid BADLY. 3. now building on point 1 and 2 we come to today. Our very clear tactics when playing a "long ball now is for the keeper to put it to that half way line wide for the full backs to compete in the air. our goal kicks and when reina plays clearances are to the full backs who are on the half way line. We try to use our two CBS playing wide and two CMS to pass it round to draw men out to make space.... but what is happening also is up front while allen and gerrard say are deep is suarez is coming deep for their pass. the result is any ball out wide that finds suso or sterling has them looking up to a deserted box and they're out ball is back tothe full back or inside to suarez. 4. why are we getting hit on the break and not scoring? Simply put we've nobody on the shoulde rof the last man.... we are having to bring the entire team much further up the pitch to actuall create a chance. We end up cmaped i nthe opposition half and are constantly open to one quick pass.... in other words if the opposition have someoen to play off skertl or agger they can find him quickly and a break is on... queue deperate chasing by allen. It seems to me that even when we camp in the opposition half suarez wants to pull out of the penalty area to come to the ball.... but he's shwon his heading and scoring ability from set pieces! 5. Andy carroll. The point is basically valid that he doesn't fit. I think this is beacuse a) he's got no pace to play off the last man b) he is static and a target so centre halfs will love him... we saw even ojhn o shea mark him out of games for sunderland, wes brown, they all love to see him whereas they should be fearing him. c) he does'nt colose down enough and is not mobile enough to get in that box if he does come wide. d) most importantly of all he's not going to come deep like suarez when we have it at the back and offer for the pass. Its celar to me that rodgers bought borini to play left side specifically to get into that box when suarez pulls out and he's working on sterling to do the same. Here's the thing if andy didn't fit.. his price is dropping all the time... if we don't recall its clear its a firesale when we sell. we didn't sell/wouldn't sell so havd no money to buy someone. now we want huntelaar??? he's andy at 29.. static type... maybe a better finisher. The player we actually need is RVP. he's everything rodgers wants, mobile, plays slightly left if you wish, knows where the net is and is prolific, and pacy. if you find one of those its a miracle. Rodgers needs to develop sterling over time, needed borini to step up far more and actually make contact with the ball when trying to shoot and most of all he wanted dempsey to play right side to come into that box when suarez pulled deep. now he's got no-one doing it and has to wait 2 months before any hope of a fix... hindsight shows the plan he had.... and shows the absolute mess the club made of it. They should have moved on from dempsey the minute fulham kicked off and sold carrol for a huge loss in july.. we didn't we're now in bad shape.
MITO: Agree with a lot of your previous post, but here's where our opinions part company: I take massive exception to the comparison of AC and KJH. KJH is AC at 29? AC is young and has potential, but if he scores half the goals KJH has he'll have done very well. A great manager who knows Huntelaar very well, Louis van Gaal, has been quoted as saying: "in the penalty area, he [KJH] is the best player in the world, bar none." Notice he didn't say KJH was 'maybe a better finisher' than Andy Carroll. We have pace in our team, on the wings. Combine that with the trickery of Suarez and a good finisher like KJH and we'll inevitably get goals. I agree that KJH hasn't got the pace of RVP, but he's not as slow as you make out, and he's a better finisher (some may argue with that statement but LVG's comment speaks for itself). I also agree it'd be great to have a fantastic finisher who also has pace, like, as you say, RVP. But you are also correct in that these players, who are established, are both rare and much valued by their clubs. So then the question is: do you go for a faster player, whose finishing is not always as clinical (e.g. Walcott) or a recognized goals scorer (e.g. Huntelaar)? Personally, I'd say take both...But, if it's a direct choice, I'll root for us getting goals every time!
Maybe you are right it may be harsh on huntellar... and yes huntelaar when in certain leagues has scored many many more than andy has looked like scoring. but both men are tall and static CFs this is why holland left huntelaar on the bench in the euros and yes thats what cost them in the group. but i think van gaal may just be slightly exagerating how good the guy is in the box... just slightly cos he's not exactly succeeded in the big teams. I would absolutely put suazre in one of the wide slots and have him come into the box to score but huntelaar isn't the guy to do the fals 9 role rodgers wants and this is why i can't see him coming. If he does i feel rodgers is foolish as he had carroll and then cut his nose of to spite his face in the summer. my opinion of walcott or sturridge is they are not for us. walcott's simply not the guy. he'll be on his back in the treatment room within a month. sturridge has an attitude it seems. The fact is established doesn't "necessarally" mean falcao for example. he's well established hence the mooted 45mil fee. yuong doesn't have to mean yesil either. i think rodgers wanted borini as he knew him, wanted him to play the left wing role and exploit the space suarez creates by pulling CBs out but he's not been ready for it. ui thyink he wanted dempsey for a similar role. I don't think huntellar will play the roles rodgers wants. However... we certainly do agree that "I'd say take both...But, if it's a direct choice, I'll root for us getting goals every time!" I'd take huntelaar but not at 9mil for a guy nearly out of contract and at 29 and i'd certainly look at bringing another in like van wolfswinkel (spelling?) I don't see rodgers doing it.
I agree Van Wolfswinkel would be a good signing, as, like damiao, he's a young, talented player. But we really need prolific poachers at the moment, and I just don't think the younger players are quite there yet. Again, it comes down to the trade off between signing talent for development, and getting the goals now. With the whole Huntelaar being an older version of Andy Carroll, I think your point would have been more accurate if you'd used Llorente, rather than Huntelaar. If you look on wiki: Huntelaar (29): 1.86m - Career total (ct:appearance/goals(ratio)): 389/254 (1.53) Van Persie (29): 1.86m - Ct: 367/163 (2.25 games per goal) Carroll (23): 1.91m - Ct: 162/45 (3.60 games per goal) Llorente (27): 1.95m - Ct: 348/130 (2.68 games per goal) As we can see, Llorente is closer to AC in height and goals scored per game. Huntelaar is historically the most prolific. I've not seen any speed stat's, but I'd be suprised if Llorente was faster than AC and/or Huntelaar. Just by watching them play, I'd say Van Persie was the quickest, but it's probably fairly close after that.
