Anybody who watched the Swansea/Liverpool game last night will have seen an outstanding performance from Jonjo Shelvey, outstanding in every way, good and bad, but on the whole good. He had a crucial part in all four goals, scoring the first, gifting the second with a back pass, presenting Liverpool with their second courtesy of an errant pass out of defence, and making the equalizer with a brilliant run and glancing back header down to Michu's feet. Full marks to him for guts; many players would have let their heads drop after his two bad mistakes, but it just made him more determined to make amends. What struck me about his performance though is that that is exactly what we need so desperately ourselves. A huge percentage of Swansea's play involved him; he was their outstanding playmaker. But he didn't just sit in the hole behind Michu and Bony; he was constantly coming back to pick up the ball in a deep position before running it forward and/or passing accurately to team mates either side or ahead of him. He was strong and hard to knock off the ball, and he kept going throughout the game. I thought he was terrific. Swansea would almost certainly have won the game but for his two mistakes. The other thing that struck me was that Fer has the physique, pace and passing to play a similar role for us. A lot of people on here have been criticising CH for playing Fer in a more advanced role, rather than in what they think is his "best" position. Maybe if they watched the game they will get an idea of what CH has been doing by pushing Fer further forward. He is asking a question of him: "Can you do for us what Shelvey is doing this season for Swansea?" We desperately need a playmaker/CAM with the ability to play that way. IMO neither Howson nor Hoolahan have it in them to do it. If Fer hasn't got it either, we will have to make do as best we can until somebody else can be found.
I totally agree. I think that what we lack is freedom to move around the pitch. Being rigid is useful when you have something to hold on to but I believe you need fluid movement in football to move other talented teams around to create opportunities. If you sit back deep and hold constant positions all games it is very easy to predict and defend against.
When there were rumours about us possibly being after him in the summer I was very, very interested indeed. Shame it never amounted to anything, £5m for a player of his age and potential is an absolute bargain if you ask me, particularly as he's the kind of player we're screaming out for right now as has been said.
The problem with Fer if you put him higher up the pitch when our players run out of ideas they'll start playing long balls up to him.
If he could become anywhere near as good as Dembele I'd be chuffed as a bunny. He dominated us last season while he was at Fulham and was an unsung hero for Spurs on Saturday. Magnificent.
We must watch different teams mark. What I see this season is a team which is (quite rightly) zonally disciplined when out of possession and defending, as for example in the early part of the Everton game, and almost the entirety of the Spurs game. Movement and fluidity are required when in possession and going forward/attacking. I would say that in the games where we have enjoyed a decent amount of possession, there has actually been a lot of movement. RvW and Elmander have provided a lot, Redmond and Snodgrass frequently move inside (though Snoddy has been way of form and far from his usual self), both Johnson and Fer have appeared in the opposition box. The point I was making about needing someone like Shelvey is that all the movement in the world is no good if you keep giving the ball away once in possession. Against Saints, Fer had a pass completion rate of around 94%. That suggests to me that he may be capable of doing a similar job for us if he is given the time to grow into the role. To do that he has to have someone else sitting in front of the back four doing the defensive job -- Johnson or Tettey.
Apart from his regular destruction of NCFC Dembele is one of my favourite players in the Premiership. He's an absolutely fantastic midfielder who tends to go under the media radar but is good enough to grace any first XI in the country in my opinion. ManUre could do with someone like him.
I must admit I went to the Spurs game but have been on holiday for the other games this season. I was really speaking about the Spurs game in particular and other game sin the past where I feel we have set up to do nothing other than defend. Yopu are quite right that being organised in defence is really important when the opposition have the ball but if everyone just stands in their positions you will just get picked off which is what happened on saturday. It also means players arent pressurising the ball which makes it easy for the opposition to keep the ball. In some ways losing 2-0 wasnt a bad result (I know that sounds daft) because it could have been anywhere from 5-0 upwards if spurs were more clinical. Although we played RVW and Emander saying we played 2 up top is laughable to me as they were playing far too deep because of the tactics the team were playing (whether that was instructed by Hughton I am unsure). I hope we dont see too many of these performances and if we do that they are away against the top sides.
I thought Shelvey was excellent - full of energy, vision, drive and skill (his knock-back to Michu for the second goal was exquisite). Reminded me in many ways of Damien Francis - we could do with someone like Damien right now - maybe, as others have suggested, Fer could fill that role. I'd like to see Fer and Tettey paired together on Saturday. Full marks too for Shelvey for not leting his head drop following his two shocking passes which led to Pool's two goals. Thought the Swans looked good last night and Michu/Bony look a class pairing up front.
There has been one game in which we had very little possession and were unable to do anything with the little we had -- Spurs. There has been one game in which we had a lot of possession and were unable to do anything with it -- Hull There have been two games in which, while having less possession overall than the opposition, we have made better use of it than they did -- Everton and Saints. The point I was making was that, in all but the Spurs game, there has been plenty of movement when we are in possession. When we have been able to use our possession effectively, i.e. actually pass the ball successfully and keep possession, we have got something out of the game. When our passing has been poor and we haven't been able to use the possession effectively, we have come away with nothing. The problem is with the passing, not the movement as mark was implying.
I thought him, Paulinho and Erikson were the best players on the pitch. Not only is Dembele creative but his powerful enough to put up a battle against the likes of Fer and Johnson, one major reason Spurs won wasn't just the movement of their midfield players but the fact they over powered us.
Did we really "make better use of it" than Everton? Did we really?? Or have you got your yellow and green tinted spectacles on again? We had two shots on goal in that game (both the goals) and I don't recall Tim Howard having a shot to save, whereas a combination of excellent goalkeeping and some last gasp defending were what kept Everton's scoreline down so I personally think it's entirely disingenuous to even attempt to say that we were in any way the better team in that game who created more chances and "made better use" of the ball. As for the Hull game of course we had the lion's share of possession, we had an extra man for more than an hour and they quite rightly set themselves up to cling onto their lead after the red card. They didn't actually have to cling on that tightly in the event, aside from a few speculative pot shots we hardly troubled their goal at all so I'd hardly say that our movement (apart from a few excellent runs from RVW that our midfielders opted to ignore) was anything special in that game either - I'd wouldn't say that not being able to break down a newly promoted side with an man disadvantage is hardly a glowing endorsement of our offensive nous at all. I'm not being overly negative, and I don't have a particular agenda one way or another, I'm just calling it as I see it (as I always have done and always will do) which - despite you saying something very similar yourself - I don't think you are actually doing
Northampton, sorry to go O/T for a minute but what's going on with this clown in Northampton? Some sources seem to indicate something sinister about him!
Reckon if Howson got a bit more freedom/confidence back alongside fer he could do a similar job without the outrageous cross field passes shelvey can pull off
@Munky By "effective use of possession" I mean effective in terms of goals scored and points gained. Many games are won every week by teams who have less possession in percentage terms but use what they have more effectively in that sense.
Howson is best IMO when played in an advanced position just behind the front players. He is not someone who builds play from deep. If he plays in a deeper role, he tends just to make runs forward with the ball himself, not trying to link play and bring others into play. Hoolahan likewise is best played 'in the hole'. We have nobody whose natural game is to do what Shelvey does, but Fer could do it IMO and I think CH thinks he could too.
I'm sorry mate, it might just be me but I don't really get your point. We've scored three goals and had no more than a dozen shots on target in four games, and probably no more than half of those have been inside the box. I'd actually say that it's been our excellent defence, rather than any "effective use of possession" that has reaped us the vast, vast majority of our points under Hootun. Effective? Largely, yes, I'd say 11th place was a hell of an achievement (which is why I'm not in the anti-Hootun brigade) Entertaining to watch? **** no! (Which is why I can sort of understand where the anti-Hootun brigade are comin from)
