Im a bit bored, and i was just wondering after watching the movie Secretariat(a bit of a duffer),was he ever given a Timeform rating of any kind? I know the great horse Cigar was given 138,so i can only guess that Secretariat would have been in the 150's especially after his astonishing Belmont stakes win. Does anyone know or care to speculate?
Couple of articles. http://betting.betfair.com/horse-racing/general/post-170-171208.html http://www.truevine.net/[email protected]/Legends/Paper.htm
Thanks Ron.Considering a lot of people reckon Secretariat was probably the greatest Thoroughbred of them all i thought he would have been higher than 144.
DBF.....Ive seen the film aswell, it's a little to Disney PG for me, if that makes sense. My opinion on Secretariat would be that he was a great race horse, one of the best. Not sure his rating would be 150 but maybe low 140s. I do have my doubts about the Belmont stakes, bar Sham who was a very good horse aswell, the rest were very average horses. Sham didn't stay 12f and he ended up finishing last. Even though the Belmont was an amazing effort I do think the performance was somewhat overrated, if you ignore Sham he beat nothing. Probably a performance worthy of 142, but not 150. No horse can run to a level of 150 it's impossie
Yeh the movie is a little bit too sickly sweet for my tastes. The reason i started this was obviously the movie and the horse.But it got me thinking about how Timeform at this moment in time have given Frankel a 142. rating. Correct me if im wrong but surely what Secretariat achieved,and lets make no bones about this he was an incredible machine who holds records that still stand 31 years later and what Frankel has achieved are not even close.So do you really think that Frankel is only a 2 lb worse off horse? I dont understand that and i never will.
Timeform only started rating American horses from the turn of the new millenium so they wouldn’t have given a rating for Secretariat. There highest ever on the level was 145 for Sea Bird. Although, as you say, on 142 Frankel ain’t that far behind…
Zen.....My 2 points on that would be, ofcourse 12f on a flat inverted bends dirt track, is going to have faster times than any European turf 12f so its no suprise he holds the World record. My second point would be how many classy American horse's run over 12f on dirt? The Belmont is pretty much disregarded just like the St Leger is over here
Shergar, did you know that Sham actually broke the track record in finishing second to Secretariat in the Derby? He would have won a triple crown in any other year but Secretariat destroyed him physically and mentally without breaking sweat. With Timeform and their tendency to rate horses on one performance, Secretariat's Belmont run where he set a world record time of 2.24 for the 1m4f which will never be beat, or even gotten close to, im pretty sure he would have to be rated 150+. Sham was actually bred for distance but Secretariat was just a freak of nature, a one off, a true miracle horse. If God existed, which for the record, I very much doubt, Secretariat would be his horse. The Belmont cannot be compared to the Leger as the triple crown is still very much, the pinnacle of American racing. The American triple crown is a test that very few horses can handle, given the rest time between each of the 3 legs. It takes a very special and rare animal to show their true form in all 3 races never mind run the race of their life in the 3rd leg and set a record that will stand for eternity.
Yeah Shergar, because there hasn't been huge attention in the US racing scene every time since Affirmed a horse has gone to the Belmont having won the Kentucky Derby and Preakness.
KS, Zen means the world record on dirt not turf. But it doesnt matter what you think of the Belmont,for every top US dirt horse the Triple Crown is the holy grail of American racing.And one of the main reasons is because all 3 races happen in the space of just 5 weeks.That why no horse has been good enough since 1978.
Sham was last in the Belmont, so I'm not sure he would have won all 3 races, he certainly would have won the first 2 legs
Take Secretariat out of the equation and you can bet your bottom dollar Sham would have had plenty left for the Belmont. 6 furlongs in 1.09 in a 1m4 race!!!!! that is just physically impossible, thats Frankels Guineas fractions but over 1m4, just insane.
Eddie.....It just seems hard to believe that America only sees a horse good enough to win the triple crown once maybe every 30 years, yet were supposed to believe that Secreteriat was competing against a horse who was also good enough to do it. It seems the case that with all so called "superstars" the horse's they competed against were outstanding aswell. Remember RVW and ***s ratings to bump STS up? 133 and 132 respectively. Which was proven to be absolute nonsense when both competed as 4yos after STS retired. Sham was obviously a very good horse, but alot of his ability was probably overplayed to boost Secretariats ability, don't forget Secretariat was beaten 6 times in 2 seasons
He was last because he tried to compete at a breakneck pace with a racing machine at the peak of his powers and ability.Secretariat broke him plain and simple.
Is Secretariat seriously being questioned here? Thanks for the films Eddie, they were amazing. As I sat there I felt a tightening in my throat. Probably a lot of it was to do with the "build up" designed by the producer, but I really felt for the horse's greatness. He certainly was a once in a life time athlete.
