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Daily Racing Thread Saturday 25th. June 2022

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by attivo, Jun 24, 2022.

  1. attivo

    attivo Well-Known Member

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    Saturday's Meetings

    Newmarket
    Flat 7 Races 1:00-4:25p.m.
    Newcastle
    A/W 8 Races 1:15-5:13p.m.
    Curragh
    Flat 8 Races 1:25-5:25p.m.
    Windsor
    Flat 7 Races 1:40-5:05p.m.
    Chester
    Flat 7 Races 1:55-5:20p.m.
    Lingfield(E)
    A/W 7 Races 5:45-8:45p.m.
    Doncaster(E)
    Flat 7 Races 6:00-8:00p.m.

    Racecards
    At The Races
    Sporting Life
    Racing Post

    Good Luck <ok>
     
    #1
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  2. Grade One

    Grade One Well-Known Member

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    2.15 Windsor-Borough @ 9-2 [Bet 365]

    First run but not keen on the horses with form in the book
     
    #2
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  3. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Well-Known Member

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    Newcastle
    14,55 Fair Star 16/1 e/w six places with sky, others five
    15,30 Rainbow Dreamer 16/1 e/w six places with bet365, 14/1 seven places with WH and sky
     
    #3
  4. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor
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    Decent looking renewal of the Irish Derby today with Westover representing the Epsom Derby form against the Epsom Oaks winner and unexposed Gallinule winner. If Westover prevails he will be the second successive winner trained a Britain - something not seen since the 90s and the heady "pre-Ballydoyle" days of Salsabil, Generous, Commander In Chief and Balanchine.
     
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  5. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    Very disappointing racing for a Saturday: lots of small fields. I have not bothered with the Pitmen’s Derby since it transferred to the kitty litter and when I saw the declarations for HQ – biggest field 7 runners except the Listed race for juveniles – yesterday, I figured that this was going to be the sort of day that punters who like putting loads of favourites in multiple bets were going to enjoy.

    The Irish Derby looks like a match between Tuesday, The Oaks winner Aidan O’Brien’s only runner, and Westover, third in The Derby who looks like he can emulate last year’s winner and boost the Epsom form.

    I backed Laneqash last time at Haydock when he was pipped by Pogo (now 3lb worse off) with Sunray Major third. I am not sure why putting cheekpieces on the Gosden horse entitles it to favouritism but at the odds none of the three appeals enough; and I stopped chasing losses years ago so Laneqash would not be the first to bolt up when I deserted it.

    Hopefully the Eclipse does not carve up into a five runner race next weekend...
     
    #5
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  6. Tamerlo

    Tamerlo Well-Known Member

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    “Decent looking renewal ?”
    Been on the totty, Oddy? <laugh>
    This must be the worst quality English or Irish Derby field in history.
     
    #6
  7. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    Well Westover was alright.

    As said after the Oaks, Tuesday is a very light-framed filly. She may not be the type to thrive.
     
    #7
  8. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor
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    Two splendid performances today from Westover and Trueshan.

    Apologies Tam - seen too many Irish Derbies won by Ballydoyle horses at long odds on. I thought it was sporting of them to send the filly there today but she never landed a blow on the super-impressive winner. Will he get another crack at Desert Crown this season?
     
    #8
  9. Grade One

    Grade One Well-Known Member

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    Went off at 2-1 but folded tamely in the final furlong, might need a drop in trip

    Tracker
     
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  10. Tamerlo

    Tamerlo Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Oddy. Just having a bit of fun, but winner apart, it was a dire field for the money and prestige on offer.
    As for Trueshan, yeah, a good perfomance but not one of the greatest of all time, as that idiot, Matt Chapman eulogised- trying to atone for completely writing off the winner and then 'covering himself.'
    Yes, Trueshan gave 30 lbs to the bottom weight in a field of mediocrity.
    Obviously he never saw really good stayers like Grey of Falloden, John Cherry, Trelawny, etc- the latter giving three stone away to the bottom weights (carrying 6st 7lbs in those days) and winning the Ascot Stakes in a canter by four lengths.
    What an amateurish commentator, Chapman is!
     
    #10

  11. Tamerlo

    Tamerlo Well-Known Member

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    Oddy, as a postscript, It saddens me greatly to see a field like that for a Derby- for a prize of nearly 600 grand.
    I admit I'm a bloody old cynic but I just felt it signalled the death knell of Flat Racing.
    I compare it to round the clock television...far too much of it; perpetuating mediocrity; too many amateurish presenters.
    Looking at the abundance of Group races and their small fields, we're only one step away from the ultimate crime...a two horse match!
    I don't know, Oddy, how you and other not606 perennials, like Bustino, see it. It just does nothing for me any more.
     
    #11
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  12. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor
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    It just seems to be getting worse and worse Tam. The Prince of Wales Stakes another recent example. The whole pattern system needs review as does the rather questionable Qipco series. I would like to see more Group 1 winners like Trueshan going for the big handicaps but I don’t know how to motivate connections. What about legislation that only allows handicap winners to become stallions? Might sound a bit wild but some out of the box thinking is required here.
     
    #12
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  13. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    Quite right Tamerlo. People are blind to the fact that weights have been 'levelled-up'. Grey of Falloden and Trelawney regularly beat Gold Cup horses in handicaps with weights of 9st7lb giving them weight. They were geldings so in those days couldn't run in Group1 races.
    Glad I'm not alone in thinking Mark J is a bit wide of the mark. He reminds me a bit of Peter Bromley. You'd listen to his commentaries and think the second horse had nearly won the race and find he'd been beaten 4 lengths. Mark J does a bit of that.
     
    #13
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  14. Tamerlo

    Tamerlo Well-Known Member

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    Oddy, a very good morning to you.
    I don’t know about handicap winners becoming stallions. Sounds like we’d have a plethora of useless ‘pokers,’ given the current handicappers’ abilities!
    To me, the prize money is out of kilter. Reduce the number of Group Races and their prize money; increase the money for handicaps; vastly reduce the number of races and the length of the seasons- despite the argument for keeping people in employment .
    I’m open to criticism that “ in the past, the grass was always greener,’ but I loved the format in the sixties….Classic winners going for the big handicaps; champion hurdlers like Persian War carrying top weight in the Schweppes; National Hunt season starting in October and top horses running 6-8 times a year.
    Do we really want to carry on with poor 4-6 runner races every day- with Brian Hughes riding his guts out?
    And my most contentious feeling of all….stop Cheltenham being the ‘be all and end all’ instead of the cream on the cake.
    So there you go , Oddy, I’ve just put the world to rights before 9 o’clock on a Sunday morning.
    Perhaps the Queen will give me one of those two a penny knighthoods, eh?<laugh>
    All the best, Oddy.
     
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  15. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor
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    True words Tam - progress isn’t always progressive
     
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  16. Tamerlo

    Tamerlo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Oddy. What we need is Goethe’s dying words…Mehr Licht.:emoticon-0105-wink:
     
    #16
  17. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor
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    Very poetic for a Sunday <applause>
     
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  18. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    Agree entirely Tamerlo. I alluded to this in the discussion of Stradivarius's defeat. Was he really a great stayer, was my thought. Or have we been sold, in days of 'non-stayers', that he was. He would not have held a light to Sagaro, Le Moss or Ardross, to name just three. For me the bottom-line was that if a stayer needs a race to be run his way in order for him to win then he's probably not a champion. Sagaro's first victory in 1975 was against two fine stayers in Crash Course and the Sea Anchor: with the latter going on to win the Goodwood Stakes under 9-10 and the Doncaster Cup.
    At the heart of the problem is the Pattern. There are too many Group 1 races. It is ridiculous to think the Queen Anne and Prince of Wales are Group 1 races. And the Commonwealth Cup should be added to that. There used to be a time when Group 1 winners ran in Group 2 races, and had to prove their mettle by giving weight. Now they don't need to. It is to the detriment of racing.
     
    #18
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  19. Grade One

    Grade One Well-Known Member

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    Borough gets that drop in trip first race at Thirsk

    Each Way @ 8-1 [Bet 365]
     
    #19
  20. SwanHills

    SwanHills Well-Known Member

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    }

    Come on Tamerlo, your comments are NOT 'a bit of fun'. They are deadly serious. Agree with you on most things especially on the great stayers of the past, and middle-distance racehorses too for that matter. When I was able to (i.e. was 'home' from abroad) did see a lot of superb racehorses. Sandown, Kempton and Ascot were my favourite tracks (no disrespect intended for the great racecourses in the north, but I never had the time to travel north of Barnet! :emoticon-0105-wink: :emoticon-0100-smile :bandit:

    Your posts certainly bring back memories. By the way, I will repeat what I posted on the Arc thread, i.e. Desert Crown is almost certainly 'out' for the rest of the season.

    (Have always felt that Matt Chapman is a right twerp, cannot understand how ITV put up with this utter clown. Hoiles is OK as a commentator, IMHO).
     
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