Yes I do mean it – and I am aware that it is the opposite of the stance I have taken to date. However this last week has changed everything for me. I am not advocating sacking SD because of the number of points we have or have not gained this season to date. I actually still think it is within a handful of what I expected. I think he should go due to football philosophy. He seems more interested in shoring up his own position than in developing the club. I could take getting relegated because we have little money, an inexperienced owner, an inexperienced manager, not enough decent players and little or no money to do much about it. What I cannot stomach is a manager who has no idea of what he is trying to achieve – and that is where I think SD stands – he is desperately bringing in someone – anyone – in the hope it will change things – but if it does he will not understand why. I have listened to the comments made by those who go to the games which are tantamount to a return to hoofball – I was one of the most ardent critics of Aidy as I hated watching that. SD had at his disposal a group of talented youngsters who were being groomed for us – and he is wasting them and bringing in wage-earners who may or may not do a job – but journeymen rarely care much. If we got relegated with the core of a good youth team who could then grow some more and with their experience from the Championship help build us in League 1 we would still have some cause for optimism. If the current team got relegated we would see them all go and have to start from scratch – and worse than that we would have thrown our whole Academy into confusion – and lessened the chance of its future ability to provide us with the home grown talent we need. To me tomorrow’s result is not relevant – Peterborough are a decent side away from home and are capable of winning losing or drawing with us – SD’s future should not depend on that. I do not expect sacking SD to bring an immediate improvement to our fortunes but if we select the right replacement - mine would be Hessenthaler - I believe the club stands a chance of having a future p.s. - I have changed the title in deference to Lloydinio who thought I was being aggressive I think
Wow! theres an ally from an unlikely source! Needless to say I totally agree ! although just to keep to form , I would prefer O driscoll (if we were quick)!
This last week has made me think SD has no ideas and is just desperate - so performances and results are not the issue. We need to think about a 3 year strategy - and if we fall down a division in that time we will be better prepared if we do so with a long game plan than if we find our selves bottom after Christmas and appointment anyone who just happens to be free. Hopefully the right man - with the right back up support will still keep us up - I see no reason why we should go down.
The danger is that a win will justify the policy. I am staggered by the latest loan it sends such a bad message to the squad. An average player with no match fitness, I think its not just Dyche but also Wilson who should be scrutinised. Between them they have signed almost a whole team but put those players against any league 1 team and ask yourself where they would finish with SD as manager.
The recruitment policy used to be part of our 5 year plan to self sustainability! It obviously has changed and needs to be changed back ASAP!
I agree in the sense that it is such a shame that the likes of Wichelow aern't getting a chance in the team, but last season people were constantly complaining that we lack experience, now we have experience and people are complaining that they are journeyman because of their age and we're not doing well?? Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. When your winning, people call them 'experience', when you look at the likes of Nosworthy, Iwelumo, Dickinson and Kightly having Premier League experience, and when you don't, suddenly they are journeyman who are well past it. If we put 2 or 3 wins on the bounce people's attitudes will change. I understand the sentiment that if we kept the squad full of academy players, we would build a long-term core. Bassini and Dyche believe that that is not the way to go, clearly not wanting to be relegated, a real threat with such a young team. Fair play to them for trying something different and getting experience into the squad. It just seems a bit too hit and miss for my liking as of yet, but I will give him time.
clearly not wanting to be relegated, a real threat with such a young team. seen the league table recently Emiatss? without our kids< I fail to see how they can do worse! always been for using our academy to the utmost , and what I saw in the BR and MM era strenthened that! What I see in the Dyche era has strengthened that belief more! You need a blend , of the young and 2 or 3 older heads , not a team full of everyone elses rejects! the loans in and out this season have been baffling at best!
Lenny are you on a fishing trip here? - this is a complete Volte-face for you and I suspect you have your rod out..
W-y In his defence the first words were , Yes I do mean it !, we may have had our differences , but Lenny is not a liar! and yes it gobsmacked me too!
I completely disagree, obviously! But i honestly don't have the energy to state why all over again! All i will say is that last season we had a run of 21 games with only 4 wins. We ran out of steam using the kids. They're not ready. They're getting game time on loan, and i will also say that last season we were bemoaning the fact that we didn't have enough players, now we have an abundance of players in our price range and everyone is moaning. For goodness sake, give the man a chance, and a break, and let him build the way he sees fit! that's it, i'm saying no more on the subject, it's doing my head in. I prefer to remain positive and give the Manager and the Players my support!
Even now I back the signings Dyche made in July and August, but other than that most of the things he is doing are fundamentally wrong, and the team isn't justifying these decisions. It's easy to play the new manager card, but lets look at recent new managers. Aidy Boothroyd knew more or less what he wanted to do, and Burkinshaw cracked over the obvious flaws. It was clear from day one what BR wanted to do, it just took him a while to make his style work with what he had. It was clear from day one what Malky's managerial philosophy was, and despite the poor ends to seasons, the simple fact is that he became a better manager as time went on. On paper we should be exactly where we are, and I'd be prepared to accept the situation if I had a clue what Dyche is trying to achieve. I said four or five games ago that SD until Middlesbrough to save his job. And at that point I was 100% behind Dyche, and felt Bonfire Night was too soon to take a definitive decision to back or sack him. I now think that's the right time. It has nothing to do with results, a little bit to do with performances, a little bit to do with tactics, a fair amount to do with the lack of youth progression, and a lot to do with the fact that he is firing blindly and randomly when it comes to man management of first team players and loan signings.
As things stand will be cancelling my sponsorship too mate! , I dont mind sponsoring one of our kids , if they get a sniff of the first team ,these days well , should have give the money to brentford!
After reading the wiki, about brentford ,and what with the link of Richard Lee, Might start paying more attention to what they are doing!
W-Y - I can understand why you think I might be fishing but the truth is probably similar to most fans - there is a balance and I have tried so hard to stay on SD's side of it as I am normally totally against firing managers for poor results in a matter of months. What has tipped me on to the other side though is not results as I believe changing mangers will make staying up even harder for all the reasons I have previously given. If results / staying up were the only consideration I would probably remain on the "keep SD" side. However what has caused my seismic shift is that I look back over the last two to three months and cannot see a credible policy being conducted by SD. He is not building what looks like a future team - there is no blend of youngsters being aided by experienced players - which is ultimately what we need. He has simply ditched the youngsters - sending them out on loan "to gain experience" MM gave them experience here. What must they now be thinking - if none of the best are getting a shot in the team what do those further down the development trail think - probably that their future will lie elsewhere. The players brought in on loan this week are just not good enough - SD does not seem to have any of the contacts that Aidy, Brendan and Malky used - we are getting failed League 1 players to "improve" us? How can that make any sense? The debate between experienced players and journeymen comes down to attitude - are the players who have joined us showing desire and hunger for the cause? Unfortunately I do not watch them but reports from most on here are not positive in that respect. Finally I would not in the long term support any manager who thinks that hoofball is right for us - I hated watching it during Aidy's last year and yet SD seems to be employing it. If I could be persuaded that SD does indeed have a credible vision for us that involves youngsters and a passing game and that he really is just needing a month long "quick fix" to kick start his dream then I would gladly support him again as I remain unhappy about giving managers too little time but those signs will need to appear fast.
Fair enough Lenny - I am in total agreement with what you have just written and with what NNW has written. For me it's the lack of a plan and the ability to switch things during a game - I have never been one that supports bringing in journeymen and proven failures.
What is a reasonable number of games to allow a manager to demonstrate that he has the aptitude to manage at Championship level? Not manage a team to promotion, but to keep it in the division? Fifteen? Twenty? Whatever the number, Dyche is fast approaching that point, and he must know it. Results will be the main factor determining if he goes or stays, but by adopting a one-dimensional playing style, relying on "competition for places" to motivate his players, marginalising promising youth in favour of journeymen and somehow assembling a team that is distinctly less than the sum of its parts, Dyche has not helped his cause. Increasingly he looks to be out of his depth--a Sergeant -Major promoted to Field Marshall, and in a panic. Personally I cannot see how results will improve with this set up and this squad,( which as others have said, is certainly not a squad for the long term.). It is hard to see three teams we can beat on the day, let alone three teams who will finish below us in the table. If this poor run continues , and we lose to Doncaster and /or Bristol City at the end of November, that must be "Goodnight Sean". A pity, because it was a well timed decision to appoint him, and looked the right thing to do at the time.
I won't say too much on my opinions ,I've made everybody aware where I stand on previous threads. What I will say is I don't feel every player signed has been a waste,Dickinson gives 100%+,Yeates and Forsyth are promising,Mirfin has not been given a chance and it doesn't look like he will,signing loan players prior to giving cover players a chance to prove themselves. A name as replacement I would like to throw into the ring is Peter Taylor,perhaps somebody could enlighten me as to where he is now? I know when you look at his recent managerial roles he has not been a great success but go back to when he was England U21 manager,he was doing a great job there,got us into the finals unbeaten and then if memory serves me didn't a certain Howard Wilkinson get him sacked in order to fulfill his own reputation,alas he failed miserably. Think what PT could do for our academy players and I'm sure he'd give them a fare rub of the green. Your opinions welcome.
Don't know about Taylor - his last stint in England, at Bradford, was dismal. Currently in Bahrain, where his record is starting to look equally dismal. True, his stint with England U21's was quite successful - but that was with the cream of England's players. We don't have that at our disposal.
