Rival watch

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by CFC: Chumps £launderx17, Jan 2, 2012.

  1. District Line

    District Line Well-Known Member
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    Thanks mate, glad to be back. I've had to take a long sabbatical due to work and personal reasons but will definitely be on here more regularly. Very pleasing to see old faces still here and the community is still going strong. <ok>
     
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  2. littleDinosaurLuke

    littleDinosaurLuke Well-Known Member

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  3. District Line

    District Line Well-Known Member
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    His problem is he has no experience of lower league football or an understanding of English Football pyramid. He is unique to other ATG managers in that Barca (with Ajax influence) is all he knows.

    Klopp, Mourinho, Conte, Poch, Rodgers, Tuchel and whoever else is considered a great manager nowadays all started at a lower league level as players/managers. Like them or not they have a genuine understanding of lower league football and don't just see it as an inconvenience or stepping stone as Pep does.
     
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  4. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    Yeah mate plus United and Liverpool play in red too.
    Obvious conspiracy <ok> :bandit:
     
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  5. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    It also has to be said most of the names you listed had a background in coaching, for example Tuchel got started as Stuttgart's youth coach under Ralf Rangnick, Mourinho was an assistant to Bobby Robson, Rodgers was an assistant to Mourinho, Poch was a disciple of Marcelo Bielsa even when he was a player - on the other hand, Guardiola's managerial career had him retire from playing, take charge of Barca B for a season, then take the Barca job, meaning that unlike most managers he's never had a period of either learning what does or doesn't work in a less glamourous post or learning while working under an experienced manager
     
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  6. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    Didn't he play under any experienced managers?
     
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  7. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Playing under experienced managers is hardly the same as working under them as a coach

    Roy Keane is the perfect example of this, playing for both Brian Clough and Alex Ferguson, but he couldn't manage to start a fight after nicking someone's chips while looking at their bird in a Croydon kebab shop on a Saturday night
     
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  8. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    Surely that comes down to the intelligence of the player?
    If a player with genuine ambition to become a coach works under several different one's (or styles) as a player he will learn what works and doesn't in different circumstances and with different types of players?
     
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  9. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Part of the problem seems to be that club owners believe ex-pros become good managers by osmosis based on who used to coach/manage them

    It seems to be particularly obvious with ex-Man Utd players, with Keane, Mark Hughes, Ryan Giggs, Wayne Rooney and Phil Neville all getting jobs where they mainly demonstrate that, just because Alex Ferguson yelled at them at half time, that doesn't mean they learned how to adequately set up an offside trap, similar to how the previous generation of ex-pros had the likes of Kevin Keegan and Graeme Souness get jobs as if Bob Paisley decided that if they were 3-0 up at half time he had his players work on their coaching badges
     
    #70149
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  10. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    As strange as it may sound i agree with everything you have said here <laugh>

    The point i was trying to make is that if a player has the intelligence to learn from his time on the pitch and from different types of managers they play under then the need to study under another to "learn the job" is not essential.
    They have seen and been involved first hand in success and failures and seen dressing room reactions. In theory an ex-player should make an ideal coach if they pay attention to this which maybe gives some credence to Pep's career so far.
    Don't personally like the man and yes, he has had the money others can only dream of but still, others have failed at the same clubs with the same money.
     
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  11. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if intelligence comes into it, though

    Teddy Sheringham's the best example of this: plenty of Spurs fans assumed he'd step into management one day because he was both one of the most intelligent players of his generation but also had a grittiness to him (as defenders who effectively flung themselves into the underside of his studs at full speed regularly found out), and he'd played for some notable managers like Brian Clough, Terry Venables, Christian Gross and Alex Ferguson

    Instead he didn't go into management until eight years after hanging up his boots, with 2/3 of a season at Stevenage and, eighteen months after being sacked by Stevenage, ten games in the Indian Super League, and after that he decided to stick to poker

    On the other hand, several of George Graham's ex-teammates expressed surprise he got the Arsenal job as he was stereotyped as a strolling player - and were quite surprised that he was fire and brimstones in the dressing room, while able to erect a couple of 10ft concrete walls on the pitch in almost every single game
     
    #70151
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  12. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    This is kind of what i'm getting at though, a great player with a good understanding of where he needs to be for his position or stroller who didn't put the effort in but one understood his position, the other understood the whole game.
    The fire and brimstone bit i think depends on a persons understanding of the players emotions/fragility/drive they have in the dressing room and (again in theory) an ex-player should be able to pick up on that even though he's outside it.
     
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  13. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    1. This season ?? I very much doubt it.

    2. If such rigging was to be done, then the final third of
    the PL season is where you would wan it (UEFA KO ties
    start to come thick and fast etc) .
     
    #70153
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  14. District Line

    District Line Well-Known Member
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    United's fixtures in December/January/February are a farce. How is it even possible to have three consecutive months without facing a "big 6" opponent? It works out well for them because when they do play teams around them they won't be at a competitive disadvantage as those other teams will also be involved in Europe.
     
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  15. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    Understanding the game is only one part of being a successful manager.
    Getting your players to understand what you want from them is another.
    Having them believe in your vision is yet another part.

    Avram Grant is supposed to be a very intelligent coach with an absolute ton of football knowledge.
    He also has the charisma of a wet fart.
    The best managers can get people to do what they'd never even consider for others.
     
    #70155
  16. District Line

    District Line Well-Known Member
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    This is was the exact problem AVB had. Back in 2006 AVB produced a detailed scouting report on Messi which is still pertinent to this day, his knowledge far exceeded that of Mourinho but he had no charisma and went to war with senior players everywhere he went.
     
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  17. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    He also had a mountain to climb, as he had no background in the game whatsoever.
    It'd be interesting to see how he'd do at a club without massive egos and names in the dressing room.
    He's quite a weird one, for me.
     
    #70157
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  18. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    A potential Rangers v Celtic final. They don't happen as often as you'd expect.
    St Johnstone are looking to retain both domestic cups, though. Now that's odd.
     
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  19. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    Because that is what the fixture scheduling algorithm produced ??

    Without doing data analytics on the fixture schedules for say the
    decade prior, I cannot say for certain whether the Man Utd fixture
    schedule this season is nothing more than chance (like it or not) .
     
    #70159
  20. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    It's not random. It doesn't claim to be.
    It's not a coincidence that we're playing away this weekend, for example.
     
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