Every single one of you who read this forum will know my feelings about what is going on at the club but following Saturday’s game, I am now resigned to the fact that Hughton will eventually be forced out by a section of the fans. Even if results pick up (and I think they will), some fans will always find an excuse for why it has happened and continue to berate and undermine him. It shouldn’t be that way but I’m experienced enough to know that when a home atmosphere begins to turn and managerial decisions, even perfectly correct ones - as was the case at the weekend, are greeted by a cacophony of boos, there is rarely a chance for a manager to get back in the boo-boys good books. It is, in my opinion and shared by a great number of our fans and even more fans of other clubs who I’ve spoken to, a completely stupid reaction from some of our fan base and will lead to turmoil but you make your bed and you lie in it - we are where we are now. I trust David McNally sincerely on all football matters - he has never given me any reason to doubt his judgement. If he feels there comes a time when there is no way back and its time to cut ties then I’ll go with his decision even if I disagree 100% with it. I was ashamed to be a Norwich City fan at the Villa game - it shouldn’t be that way. I should feel proud because we’re a great club who have over achieved for a few years and aspire to be a club who can sustain their new-found stature for the long term, grow on and off the pitch without the need for a sugar daddy and become a role model to others of a similar stature, but the Premier League seems to have brought a distinct change in the attitude of some fans and not a good change. They feel shaking up the management is the only way to turn tides - that is not how I feel. Indeed, I am extremely worried about what direction the club are heading in if a perfectly capable manager with a great eye for talent and a decent track record both at his two former employees and his current one is forced out of the club by a section of impatient fans. There seems to have been an increase in very arrogant supporters who expect instant success - you support the wrong club folks! Get yourself to the Etihad or Stamford Bridge - you might get to see what you want although I wouldn't guarantee it because nothing in football is guaranteed. The manager has come under serious scrutiny following the Villa game yet did literally nothing wrong, nothing at all. He made a few changes following an undoubtedly disappointing performance the week previous, set us up correctly, aggressively, in an attacking formation, he made the right subs at the right times. He was let down by players making poor decisions. Has he always been bang on the money? Of course not. Who is? Only the very top managers get it right most of the time. We see him lambasted for making us more difficult to beat yet are told by all experts that being organised and defensively sound are the platform for any successful side. Have you ever heard anybody say that success is built on a 'leaky defence'? Cardiff were praised last night for ‘limiting’ Spurs to 29 attempts on target at home. They were praised because they were organised. They barely threatened but they bore the hallmarks of a side who had something to build on. I'm sure many fans would love to see Malky return to Norfolk - what makes them think he'd set us up any differently? Hughton has made lots of mistakes, there is no question about that. The football has often been devoid of excitement but equally there have been plenty of matches which have been thoroughly entertaining but seem to get swept under the carpet. He's been analysed for his substitutions - a gripe which I can fully understand. However, he’s also been criticised for such atrocities as us playing with width or for scoring from set pieces! I forgot this was illegal nowadays. When we play one up front we 'are too defensive', when we play two up front we are 'too attacking'. It just shows that the guy cannot win in some peoples eyes. Even when we score a goal there is something wrong with it. If we win a game, we should have done so in a more entertaining fashion. He even gets abused for giving our opponents praise... I mean for goodness sake - that is pathetic. Name me a manager who doesn't do this and I'll show you a picture of Glenn Roeder riding a unicorn through the Barclay in a vest with the slogan 'I'm a pretty boy' on it. Am I being stubborn? Yes - because I can see the direction he is trying to take us and appreciate that it will take a long time - that is why I have and will continue to back him. Others disagree, fine, but he and more importantly we as a club, are far from the shambles indicated by those desperate for change and that makes the situation so awkward and why the bickering is intense on a regular basis. He might be an old head but he is still a young manager - he is still learning. With respect, if we dismiss him we will likely end up in a similar situation - another manager who is learning on the job but with someones elses squad, one who may utilise that squad in a similar way, simply because that is how you build a good side for the future. I am excited by the players we have brought in - they haven’t quite all hit it off yet but there have been signs that it is getting there. Sacking a manager, one appointed for the long term, 5 games in, having spent a fortune upgrading the squad is tantamount to suicide and I would be extremely worried about everything we’ve achieved in the last five years completely collapsing. Yes it’s not just 5 games - yes he was here last year but he was assigned to do a job with the team and he did all he was asked to do and this season has a fresh squad and should be judged from that point onwards - so far, despite some people disagreeing, Hughton’s reign has been a successful one even if it hasn’t set the pulses racing in the same way as the previous incumbent did. But this is a different scenario now. The buzz has gone. You don’t get anywhere quickly from here. Any comparison to di Canio is utterly stupid - he was a short term appointment, designed to give an instant impact to drag them out of a messy situation. I’m amazed he started the season if I’m honest and that is why I predicted they would come bottom of the table. We are in not in the same shoes. I hope we don’t act in a rash manner and that we do indeed stick to our theme of trying to work to a plan and build sensibly as has been the case so far but I do now fear that the boat has been rocked and we may even have a leak, and it is all so, so unnecessary. That is what is so gutting. A few too many have hit the self-destruct button. Stupid. I hope they don’t regret it. Whatever happens from here on in please get behind the team - it will do us no favours by creating a poor atmosphere at games. If the right decision is to sack Hughton, that decision will be reached by those at the top - it will be obvious to them that its run its course. The problem I see is that those doubters realise its not obvious - its not clear cut - in fact its not even close, and therefore feel they have to create a bad atmosphere in order to bring change? That is what worries me. In an ideal world we should all want the club to continue to improve without the need to change and that scenario is still very possible. OTBC - get behind the team, even if you don't like the manager
I think the CH has done a good job so far. He deserves a chance and time to get the results. I think if we lose at Stoke though, he's going to be in the crap. I'm patient but most fans want us to be instantly successful.
I don't really understand it though, we are in the same League position as last year(pretty much), so why the panic stations from everyone?, do they want us to be on 7 points?,
we come to expect it with most managers - its rare to have a universally popular gaffer - but this particular ship has hit flimsy rocks. i do fear that the fans have created our own problems here more than anything else.
i can only assume it is down to two things: 1. the money spent, which was considerable 2. the away performances have been ****e, albeit there has only been two of them! if we'd won on saturday we'd still probably be having the same arguments but with far less people
Great post Supers and it will come as no surprise to the pants wetters that I 100% agree with everything you say!
look, the people who want hughton out are merely looking out for the club. they want the same as us - the club to be a success - but i just feel they are being rash. they do have valid concerns, but then we have valid positives. it is far from clear cut that he is the wrong man for the job, so how can he possibly be sacked? overall it is without question that he has achieved all the aims asked of him last season, therefore he has been a success so far, even if some people don't like the style or think results haven't been good enough. fact is, the results cry out of a mid-to-lower half premier league side which is exactly what we are
agreed with superman on this. the tide has turned for some, and they won't turn back. shame it won't help the team at all - we need to get behind them 100%
If a section of NCFC fans are booing CH at Stoke away all that is going to do is have an negative impact on the players and how they perform on the day. Could turn out to be some kind of self-fulfilling prophecy.
Regardless of anyone personal feelings about Canary Callers, I listen to the show every weekend and have clearly noticed the momentum building week by week, and it began last season, which came as no real surprise but the last two weeks have really made me prick up my ears! The last two weeks, for those that do not tune in, there were a few callers returning from the Spurs game vowing to not go to any more away games, following that display and this week the amount of calls saying he should go was quite amazing. So even just listening to the last two shows, ignoring anything said on here - he does now appear to be on borrowed time. What is really unfortunate for CH is the next 4 games, where getting anything from any of them is a big ask (although not impossible). Even a really tough League Cup game could tip the scales a little further against him. My gut feeling is the worst case scenario will become a reality, with no points from the next 3 league games, making Cardiff a hugely significant match, which is at the end of October. Should this game also be lost (possibly drawn), I think he will be removed (that is not wishful thinking on my part - just a scenario with real potential).
i suppose my point is that from this point forwards, any defeat is now going to double the pressure on him, unfairly of course, but say we win at stoke - a very possible scenario - if we then lost narrowly to chelsea - again, a possible scenario - the pressure would suddenly be huge, even though we'd lost to a title contender off the back of a win away from home the previous week. once a section of the fans get a bee in their bonnet about the manager, how many are willing to accept decent performances or decent results? in my experience they aren't - they make excuses as to why it happened and dig their heels in. it shouldn't be that way but as soon as the snakepit started booing the substitution of redmond (and as i keep maintaining, it was totally the right call and made those supporters look like absolute ****ing idiots), there was a grumble around the rest of the stadium which we've all experienced before. the 'uh-oh - he's in trouble' grumble. i've not known many managers come back from that.
I agree, I think at Stoke and Cardiff he has to get a win or he is going to be in deep crap. Those are beatable teams for us, DM knows that.
But why would you sign the most expensive - and probably expansive player we've ever had at the club but not alter your playing ethos to accommodate him. We're still set up to pump crosses in to the box (never from the byline as with inverted wingers we never get close enough to it) just as we did when Morison or Holt were playing. Well, Ricky is not that type striker, so there's no point at all him being selected if we're still playing balls in to a fictitious Holt figure. Somebody said (Carrabuh, I think) that Lambert moulded his team round Holt, Hoolers and Martin. Well, that's exactly what Hughton should be doing after spending a vast amount, for NCFC, on RvW and Hooper. But it's bloody obvious he hasn't adapted to our new found strengths one iota and is just blundering on with his 'must not concede (even though we always do) mantra, with no suggestion that WE determine the pace of the game, how high we press the opposing back line and squeeze play, etc. Sometimes it's an asset to be proactive, rather than reactive. That's an asset in short supply within our current management regime.
Right now it would be rash to get rid of him but as you say there are valid reasons for concern and positivity. I just happen to be in the concerns are starting to again out weigh the positives. This is a legacy of last seasons lack of improvement through the entire second half of the season. His squad/his players may be not, but surely and this is why I would have replaced him before the summer spend, a good manager (not even a great one) after 1/2 or 2/3 of a season should be getting his ideas across and the players exihibiting greater comfort and even improved performances with in a given system? Like I say though having let him spend it, It would appear rash to get rid of him. I would not be in the least bit upset if they did tomorrow to be honest but it would be rash and he should at least get to show some improvements if he can by the 10th game. I formerly said Xmas but I just can't see him turning it round and getting that long now. I will be at the chelski game and I will be only supportive from KO to the final whistle. I can then vent on here if needs be. By the way supers, how do you know he achieved all the aims asked of him last season? We stayed up, that was the biggy but how do you know there weren't others? For example, demonstrable improvement in the teams understanding and play within the new managerial framework (I could say shackles but framework sounds almost rigid enough!) Because being quite honest I'm not convinced I did, did you honestly? Like you say there are some very modest green shouts this season, enough for now for me to stay behind him, just. But lose to Stoke, Cardiff and Newcastle amoungst our relegation rivals and I think his position will become untenable. Ask yourself, if you believe he did a good job and had made that squad midtable. Then why is it taking so long to make any head way this season? A number of our line ups so far this season have been 8-9 players from last seasons squad with new additions. Why are they not hitting the ground running? They will know his system and how he wants them to play. Wouldn't they? And perversly you did make a point in your original post that I am guilty of. CH can't win in a way. Last season he never changed anything and at times I thought like many others it was crying out for it. This season he keeps chopping and changing and I think it may be undermining any chance of building understandings within the team. And then there was 2 up top against spurs away. a ludicrous time to drop the extra midfielder, positive yes? again perversely no, you can't be positive with out the ball. Bah! COYY!
I see what your saying, my point was they are teams on our level, teams we can meet on a level playing field so we should have a good chance of beating!
I blame football Manager, it makes everyone think they are 'world class' football managers and experts. As a non PC gamer, I'm confident in my total lack of understanding of what makes a good football manager and therefore happy to leave it up to those I trust (McNally etc) who DO know what it takes to manage a club in the REAL world to make the right decisions and in the meantime I will continue to support my team and cheer them on regardless. I may though take a bit of a break from this forum, it just SOOOO depressing reading all the tripe!
