I'm tempted to believe that refereeing has improved this season. They seem to be more aware of the cheats, more likely to play advantage and more likely to appreciate the difference between teams trying to play the game in the right way and the game destroyers. Is this true. or am I being deluded by a change of attitude towards Spurs, or indeed is that a delusion in itself? The football fan has always blamed the 'bloody ref' whenever things are gong badly for his team. Could it be then that because more has gone right for us this season than for many seasons before we have less reason to look for poor decisions? I tend to think it's a combination of all of these factors. It looks to me as if the referees have been told to let games flow where ever possible, and to be extra vigilant on diving. It's these two areas that I perceive to have improved this season. Both of which play into our hands as a team that relies on skillful flowing football.
I think they have for Spurs. I feel like we get more of the decisions now and there are less ridiculous ones go against us. I do still think there are a lot of poor refs at this level and other games become more chaotic as a result. I don't like the trend towards not showing yellow cards unless they absoultely have to, often we see bookings only start late in the second half because of it, which when sides are rotating fouls well, helps the cloggers.
I voted option 3, no little has changed. I'm still left sometimes seething at decisions by refs in our games and too many times I've watched other matches and thought the ref just ruined it. There's no real solution to it either in my opinion, they're still fooled by diving of certain individuals, they don't allow common sense to prevail at times - such as giving a yellow for a reckless challenge that can do serious damage and then a yellow for a slight shirt pull just 5 minutes later, if a shirt pull warrants a yellow then a reckless challenge has to be a red, I don't see how both are punishable with the same penalty when one can take a player out of a game/ out for months and the other stops someone in their tracks, granted the letter of law may deem a shirt pull as potentially a bookable offence depending on the current incident at the time but this is where my point of commons sense (lack of it that is) comes into play... Finally I genuinely believe that some of them aren't fit enough to be keeping up with the fast paced aspect of the game, too many times they've blown for decisions when they're miles away from the incident, which leads me to believe how they can truly tell if the decision they're making is 100% certain and correct? I would probably give the linesmen a slight thumbs up, while they're still prone to missing offsides or giving offsides when players are on, it's not been as entirely disastrous as it has been in previous years.
I voted 1 although it was very close to being a 2. I have cut and pasted this from the 'Rival Watch' thread: I sense that match officials see us in an increasingly benevolent light. We are robust and physical without resorting to the foul play of many of our opponents. The WBA game apart (with damned good cause), our players are controlled and treat officials with respect. Harry Kane deals with referees on the pitch. He's no push over but you don't see his face contorted with rage and shouting four letter rants that Rooney, Terry and Henderson indulge in. I cannot remember M Pochettino commenting in a deregoatory fashion about an official. He probably has but he doesn't make a habit of it, it's just not his style. Maybe officials finally see that giving in to the Liverpools, Uniteds and Chelseas with their gamesmanship, lack of respect, intimidation and their ridiculous demands for preferential treatment just encourages them to do it more and more. It was noticeable earlier this season that the more Mourinho demanded a penalty from officials the greater became the likelihood that hell would freeze over before he got one. Just one complaint. Could an official please send Robert Huth off for elbowing opponents before he seriously hurts someone?
I suspect we may have "observer bias" . Specifically you may think that the results are helped by 'better' adjudication when IMHO the difference is that the team performances are so good that only a Foy-style joke of an official is going to rob the boys of the result they deserve.
Is it me or are we getting less bookings in recent games when compared to earlier in the season when we seemed to get 4 or more a game? I wonder how UEFA referees will view the new physical Spurs game in the knock-out stages of the EL? I am minded to think we'll get pulled up on it quite a lot.
"I wonder how UEFA referees will view the new physical Spurs game in the knock-out stages of the EL? I am minded to think we'll get pulled up on it quite a lot." For away legs, we have to play a more UEFA-friendly MF pressing game IMHO. For WHL, it should be the full-blown pressing ferocity. The crowd will make it immensely intimidating for a ref who repeatedly blows for powder-puff continental antics.
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/fairnesstabelle/wettbewerb/GB1 Proof of the players getting stuck in more (Spurs were usually around the top in pre Pochettino times) .
I agree with this, to be honest. Last season we'd probably have been fuming about Wickham elbowing Vertonghen, injuring him and costing us the game. This time it wasn't relevant to the result. There's still far too much nonsense going on with the officials at the moment, for me. Rooney's disallowed goal in their win over Stoke annoyed me, for example. The shove was quite soft, but ignoring his expletive-ridden reaction was ludicrous. You shouldn't be able to abuse the ref like that and have no response. Premier League refs might be able to take it, though I'd suggest that they shouldn't have to. Kids and amateurs watching that twat will feel that it's an acceptable way to behave, though. Why should some poor bloke have to receive a ton of stick in order to perform such a thankless task? Nobody sane wants to do it as it is. Is it any wonder that the standards have dropped so badly?
"Premier League refs might be able to take it, though I'd suggest that they shouldn't have to. Kids and amateurs watching that twat will feel that it's an acceptable way to behave, though. Why should some poor bloke have to receive a ton of stick in order to perform such a thankless task? Nobody sane wants to do it as it is. Is it any wonder that the standards have dropped so badly?" You just need a "Clive the book" type to go rugby-style and issue yellows for dissent. There are enough on-pitch morons to thus get two yellows, and put their team-mates a man down and their manager a few games to do without. Even allowing for the low position on the evolutionary scale of yer average PL player, the message will soon get through.
Brian’s thread-starting post still intrigues me. Have the refs finally seen the light to some very limited extent? Or are they just the latest mugs to jump on a bandwagon? We’re doing well, we develop England’s young stars. I voted option two, but nearly went for one, and admit three may be right. It may all be observer bias. This year I’m less likely to be in a homicidal rage so the refs may seem, comparatively, figures of sweetness and light. But I agree with Brian that Mourinho managed (at long, long last) to provoke a backlash with his conspiracy talk. But that may only show that the most spineless group of men in the world can be offended by sufficiently arrant nonsense. As an example of how shyte things remain, what about the red card for denial of a clear goal-scoring opportunity? It seems to me it’s been a complete and total lottery that only a few players and teams have lost for completely inexplicable reasons. 1. Write rules with meanings so clear 50 of 50 people will agree what they mean. 2. Enforce them 100% of the time, to the letter. 3. Evaluate results. 4. Iteratively improve. Change the rules that seem to lead to the worst outcomes to other clearly written rules, and enforce those. 5. Continue to repeat step 4.
I've been reliably informed that any attempt to allow the game to flow more is down to how the refs are being briefed. They've been told that they're supposed to regard it all as entertainment now and help to bring out the spectacle of it. I'd rather they did a consistent job and everyone knew where they stood, to be honest. Keeping twats on the pitch because people have paid good money to see them isn't my idea of fair play. Messi's an excellent talent, but I don't care if it's him or Lee Cattermole making a bad tackle. If it's a card for one, then it should be a card for the other.
I wondered if that had been the case and letting the game flow is a good thing as far as I am concerned and it doesn't have to mean not enforcing rules but red cards ruin games and if they are confined to dangerous play I'm with that. Football is entertainment and I'm pretty sure that most people do not want to see a star performance by a referee they want to see a decent game. There is always going to be some element of danger which has to be policed when the stakes are so high but the media needs policing as well for the constant minute analysis of ref decisions. You have to accept that refs will make mistakes but there is a need to trust their good intentions.
I agree that there are many issues left to be addressed. However, I sense a small but perceptible move away from giving decisions to United, Chelsea, Liverpool just because of any success those clubs may have enjoyed at various times (long ago for the Mousers!) or who their managers are and how upset their players get. I feel more confident (not certain by any stretch) that Ashley Young style theatrical 'dying swan' dives won't produce penalty decisions as once they did. It would be good if the perpetrators were booked but 'slowly, slowly', I guess. The absence of Ferguson and Mourinho can only help the cause. Wenger next? The downside may be that the newer breed of managers - Pep, Pochettino, Klopp, etc. are going to learn how to manipulate the system as a number of their predecessors did so well. Klopp to wear a T shirt stating that Benteke should be given more penalties?
Not much has changed, but the glaringly bad decisions going against Spurs seem to have stopped for now, but there is plenty of time this season yet. One thing that grinds my gears though is the failure to punish habitual divers with yellow cards, Deulofeu for example blatantly dives in just about every game he plays and yet is never booked, the referees just wave play on. Joe Allen is another culprit. Not much has changed, referees still won`t give a penalty against Liverpool at Klanfield and still give Chelsea goals that are yards offside.
The diving yellow card is another lottery ticket. Flow is a beautiful thing (it may have done as much as almost anything to make me a football fan--US sports are all breaks and no action). So I would argue for video review, rather than replay, of key decisions. If the call is wrong, make it right and restart. If it’s unclear whether it’s wrong or right, leave it as it was called. Close penalty calls will never be anything but guesses in real time, as will simulation cards.
I voted 'worse' and today showed the reason why. I don't think they make any more mistakes than before (and who can blame them for a few errors when the players try to cheat so much). But they don't seem to know the rules.... Kevin Friend clearly said 'he won the ball' when not showing Flamini a red card today. Even Graeme Souness knew that was irrelevant. It was a red card as clear as day (or alternatively not a foul at all if the ref judged that he wasn't putting the player at risk of serious injury). It couldn't possibly be a yellow. And then Michael Oliver takes a vaguely ok decision to bring John Terry over and explain that Costa is right out of order for dissent rather than showing him a yellow....and then spoils that completely by ignoring it altogether when he does it again.
As was suggested earlier, I also think that if SAF was still managing he would continue to get the vast number of dodgy decisions that alone probably accounted for the amount ManU won the league in his last season. One problem is that as soon as this is mentioned to any phone in or similar, it's all put down to sour grapes and nobody ever did a serious study of the issue. But as also was said, you won't get a pen at Anfield. Also some decisions get forgotten when the result goes your way, but there was at least one and perhaps three penalties we could have had on Saturday, and that could have seriously affected our season had we not scored through normal channels. I don't see Gomes getting away with that "challenge" on Kane at Old Trafford against a SAF team - where of course it was not allowed to give Scholes a red for a large number of worthy "tackles".
Unfortunately, Flamini staying on the field, an offsides first goal by Arsenal and three pens not given to Spurs indicate our hopes for better treatment by the refs may be sadly disappointed. Though up until this week, it seemed the refs had been warming to us, at least slightly, this weekend seemed to be the same old, same old boosting of a big five straggler at our expense. We’ll have to see how it goes. It certainly does make this weekend’s games even more interesting, especially Leicester Arsenal. Will the refs dare to step in on Arsenal’s behalf?
