Red Bull

[The Norton Cat]

Just been reading the recent BBC article about RB Leipzig.

BBC News - RB Leipzig: How did Red Bull build a Champions League side from scratch?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51475532

Red Bull and their involvement in football has been discussed a few times on this board.

Although there is much that can be considered wrong with the Red Bull model, particularly if you're a traditionalist, this quote summarises, for me, what is good about RB Leipzig. This is the approach that I have often wished Sunderland would adopt.

"Rangnick decided on a style of play RB Leipzig wished to pursue and then scouted and signed players to fulfil those requirements - all exclusively 23 or younger, all keen to develop."

 

[Kittenmittons]

Remember when Oliver Burke went there? I thought that was a good move, shame it didn't work out.

Got no problem with Red Bull in sport. They've been good in F1 and frankly, if it shakes things up, so be it. There are a lot of owners and fans of big clubs around the world who want to keep the old G14/G18 clubs in a monopoly at the expense of everyone else.

 

[The Norton Cat]

Remember when Oliver Burke went there? I thought that was a good move, shame it didn't work out.

Got no problem with Red Bull in sport. They've been good in F1 and frankly, if it shakes things up, so be it. There are a lot of owners and fans of big clubs around the world who want to keep the old G14/G18 clubs in a monopoly at the expense of everyone else.

I can understand why fans, especially in Germany, aren't keen on them. They're pretty much flouting the 50+1 rule and they've effectively wiped out SV Markranstädt. They've done the same in Austria with the history and image of Austria Salzburg. So, from that point of view, they're the bad guys. The way they run their clubs though, that's something to be admired.

I would hope that if FPP do ever takeover at SAFC, that they would consider running the club along similar lines. I can see no joy in billionaires coming in and effectively buying trophies with a load of expensive mercenaries, even if they are world class players. I would much prefer to see us develop our own world class players. Or at least to be the finishing school where world class players are honed.

 

[Billy Batts]

Ffs. Thought they were buying us for a minute there.

 

[The Norton Cat]

Ffs. Thought they were buying us for a minute there.

That's been rumoured before

 

[Nacho]

It's an interesting one, from the outside looking in there's something hollow about the success that City say have had. Are their fans still on a high because of past recent successes or are they already taking them for granted because they came so easily and quickly, and now they're hacked off because they're second best in the league.

I think in the long term slow but sure building is what will give fans the most happiness and it avoids the horrible mess that you can get in financially if you keep on hurling money at something that's failing.

Obviously I'm not going to cry about it if we got taken over by big spenders who start throwing cash around but I'd prefer a slower more measured approach.

 

[The Norton Cat]

It's an interesting one, from the outside looking in there's something hollow about the success that City say have had. Are their fans still on a high because of past recent successes or are they already taking them for granted because they came so easily and quickly, and now they're hacked off because they're second best in the league.

I think in the long term slow but sure building is what will give fans the most happiness and it avoids the horrible mess that you can get in financially if you keep on hurling money at something that's failing.

Obviously I'm not going to cry about it if we got taken over by big spenders who start throwing cash around but I'd prefer a slower more measured approach.

I think due to some recent football-related and non-football-related experiences, I'm beginning to question more than ever what the point of professional football is and why it plays such a big part in my life. The club I support doesn't represent me, its achievements aren't my achievements, its failings aren't my failings. I think I'd feel even more removed from it if the club became like City or PSG or Chelsea.

 

[Nacho]

I think due to some recent football-related and non-football-related experiences, I'm beginning to question more than ever what the point of professional football is and why it plays such a big part in my life. The club I support doesn't represent me, its achievements aren't my achievements, its failings aren't my failings. I think I'd feel even more removed from it if the club became like City or PSG or Chelsea.

Yeah it'd be amazing to win stuff again and it'd feel good to be a big deal but what would really feel great would be to have success but to be extremely proud of your club at the same time. Can the fans of those clubs say that, deep down? I'm not sure.

 

[The Norton Cat]

Yeah it'd be amazing to win stuff again and it'd feel good to be a big deal but what would really feel great would be to have success but to be extremely proud of your club at the same time. Can the fans of those clubs say that, deep down? I'm not sure.

I'm sure I'd be over the moon if we did start winning things. I'd absolutely love it if the club could do or become something really special. I thought Donald and Methven, with all their talk about Borussia Dortmund and sustainability, might do something like that but it doesn't look like that will be the case.

 

[DELETED ACCOUNT 1234]

I think due to some recent football-related and non-football-related experiences, I'm beginning to question more than ever what the point of professional football is and why it plays such a big part in my life. The club I support doesn't represent me, its achievements aren't my achievements, its failings aren't my failings. I think I'd feel even more removed from it if the club became like City or PSG or Chelsea.

It's in interesting subject matter. I've felt over various periods of my life that my club represents the city of Sunderland, the North East and the history of the region. I felt this being diluted during our spell in the Premier League and it is slowly coming back now. To me, this is the essence of sport. The reason why I support my team and not another.

I almost see my team and the sport in general as separate things. I'm happy for things to change and people like Red Bull to come in and make amazing changes, but I couldn't have that here at the expense of the clubs identity. If they were to come here and take the naming rights to the stadium, sponsor our shirts, the training ground etc. I would be fine with that. But the second they attempt to change our name, the red and white stripes or remove our history then I would be gone.

A couple of things that the Man City ownership deserve a lot of credit for is the way they are involved with helping the community in East Manchester and the way that they have built up the clubs structure. They've obviously spent millions on the pitch which is a little indulgent for my liking, but they are improving the lives of people in the area and creating opportunities for youngsters in the game, so I think I could still relate to it as a city fan.

For me, the future I want to see for our club is one that has our identity at the core. Obviously, I want that identity to be built on to make this club the most successful it can be. I want our academy to be at the centre of our plans - not only local kids but perhaps creating links which allow us to pick up the most talented Irish and Scottish kids and make them a part of our identity again. I want players who have character, men who are happy to work hard, not "lads" who are all about the wag lifestyle, tattoos and city life. Then I would want any ownership to focus on the foundation and help to build up the community and support those around them.

I'm obviously in a minority because most would trade everything for success, but I think if the club took pride in it's roots, focused on the academy for the product on the pitch and the foundation to improve the community off the pitch, then that would be a club I could feel proud to be represented by, no matter the lack of success. *ultimately though, for a club to sustain such standards, an element of success is required, namely sustained Premier League football to provide the finances for such an operation.

 

[The Norton Cat]

It's in interesting subject matter. I've felt over various periods of my life that my club represents the city of Sunderland, the North East and the history of the region. I felt this being diluted during our spell in the Premier League and it is slowly coming back now. To me, this is the essence of sport. The reason why I support my team and not another.

I almost see my team and the sport in general as separate things. I'm happy for things to change and people like Red Bull to come in and make amazing changes, but I couldn't have that here at the expense of the clubs identity. If they were to come here and take the naming rights to the stadium, sponsor our shirts, the training ground etc. I would be fine with that. But the second they attempt to change our name, the red and white stripes or remove our history then I would be gone.

A couple of things that the Man City ownership deserve a lot of credit for is the way they are involved with helping the community in East Manchester and the way that they have built up the clubs structure. They've obviously spent millions on the pitch which is a little indulgent for my liking, but they are improving the lives of people in the area and creating opportunities for youngsters in the game, so I think I could still relate to it as a city fan.

For me, the future I want to see for our club is one that has our identity at the core. Obviously, I want that identity to be built on to make this club the most successful it can be. I want our academy to be at the centre of our plans - not only local kids but perhaps creating links which allow us to pick up the most talented Irish and Scottish kids and make them a part of our identity again. I want players who have character, men who are happy to work hard, not "lads" who are all about the wag lifestyle, tattoos and city life. Then I would want any ownership to focus on the foundation and help to build up the community and support those around them.

I'm obviously in a minority because most would trade everything for success, but I think if the club took pride in it's roots, focused on the academy for the product on the pitch and the foundation to improve the community off the pitch, then that would be a club I could feel proud to be represented by, no matter the lack of success. *ultimately though, for a club to sustain such standards, an element of success is required, namely sustained Premier League football to provide the finances for such an operation.

I agree with this almost word for word. I had hoped that Stewart Donald would bring back a lot of the significance and identity of the club. After all, that is what he suggested he wanted to do. It doesn't appear that he'll get the chance to do that though.

I don't particularly feel that much has improved in these regards since we've been in League 1, beyond Donald's initial push. His unpopularity has put the brakes on it. I have been spending a lot of time hanging around non-league due to a family connection and getting to know the players, staff, and fans at these clubs makes it all mean so much more. I am struggling to find similar meaning with SAFC at the moment, although that is, of course, a personal thing.

This is probably why I am keen for SAFC to become something a bit different. I think a lot of English clubs have become a bit of a grey homogenous mass, with little to really make them stand out. It doesn't seem to be the same on the continent. I look at traditions such as the annual friendly between Juventus and Juventus B at Villar Perosa, the unique identities fostered by clubs like Athletic Bilbao, Sankt Pauli, the fan culture at various European clubs, the approach to the technical side of things at the Red Bull clubs and at places like Atalanta, I want a bit of that for us.