Off Topic The Goodhand Arms

I may be in a minority of one but I want politicians who listen to the arguments for and against a particular policy or proposed action and who afterwards make up their minds. I don't want people who can't change their minds regardless of changes of circumstances. I don't admire blind consistency in politicians at all.

In a fantasy world, I start a political party called the NoWhip party. No MP will ever be told how to vote but they are expected to take part in debates and to choose what they feel to be the wisest course of action at the time they are asked to vote. If they subsequently change their minds, that's all well and good, there's no bad feeling for a U turn.

My views on many matters have changed through my life. I mistrust anyone whose views don't ever change.

Vin

 

You do like putting word into my mouth. Of course not.

Vin

 

I think you may find Mr Corbyn would endorse your position there.

 

It's extremely tough, there are severe ramifications for bombing and not bombing. Bombing has been relatively successful in terms of eliminating targets, but its the height of bad taste right now, and Obama's drone campaigns are kind of the poster boy of anti-American/Western rhetoric. The problem is there is no reliable data collected on the effectiveness of counter terrorism operations.The Campbell group did a review in 2009 into something like 40 procedure and found most of them were only effective in the short term, but over half actually increased incidences of terrorism.

I totally get the anti-bombing argument, but to me it's like flipping a coin. If you don't bomb ISIS then they may consolidate power regionally and grow. If you do bomb them, you risk killing more innocent civilians and inadvertently leads to more extremism.

If you back the Kurds, then they will want a state of their own, which will upset the Iraqi's, Turks, Jordanians & Syrians.

 

I'm not sure I agree with you. Mr Corbyn appears rarely to have changed his mind on anything. I think that might be why Labour party members love him. He's been admirably consistent in their view, even down to opposing Labour in the lobbies 300 times (IIRC) rather than compromising his (genuinely) heartfelt views. He appears to me to be a man of almost pure principle rather than debate and decide.

And no, I'm not saying that means we should machine-gun babies on sight.

Vin

 

I think you'll find that he's been wanting to bomb them longer than that. It's at least since we started bombing IS in Iraq anyway, which I believe was 2014.

 

It's not that simple. In 2013 Cameron wanted the UK to assist in the overthrow of Assad, just as we assisted in the overthrow of Ghaddafi in Libya. Now he wants to bomb ISIL. Assad's Syrian army are the only credible military threat to ISIL on the ground.

Many of the other so called "moderate" opposition forces, the ones Cameron wanted to support in their civil war against Assad, have been selling their US donated arms to ISIL, which is why the US has now withdrawn their support for those groups.

 

I come with reading once again - this is a very interesting article from the only journo to have been, hung out with ISIS and managed to get back again -

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...t-muslim-world-equal-partner?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

Kyle Edmund takes the first set against David Goffin in the first match of the Davis Cup Final.

 

Corbyn's own views may or may not be inflexible, but he's nothing if not a democrat. He has shown a willingness to listen to his MPs and the wider Labour party and has declared his ambition to aim for a consensus in his shadow cabinet. Unfortunately for him many Labour MPs appear openly hostile, making consensus on anything very difficult to achieve, but that's hardly his fault.

As for killing babies, I never accused anyone of wishing to do that. Dead children are an inevitable consequence of war though.

 

So how much **** will Coronation Street get for their Jihad plot storyline?

Edit: I see they are now denying they are doing it

 

Read that in the paper at lunch. Very controversial if they do it.

 

Double break for Edmund in the 2nd set. He leads 6-3 4-1. Go Kyle.

 

Edmund is 100 in the world and Goffin 16 in the world and he's thumping him.

 

Second set Edmund. 6-3 6-1.

 

Goffin 4-1 up in the third .

 

Edmund breaks back.

 

Goffin breaks again.

 

Goffin takes the third set .

 

Goffin breaks ............