Lots in the news about how racism is still rife in football and it contains "institutional discrimination". This is follow the recent report: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29976832 Now I haven't read the report itself, I have only heard what is in the news. But I can't say I am convinced by what I hear. I'm not saying it is perfect, but I feel perhaps the "racism" in appointing coaches is overstated. The main stat that has been thrown about is "BME coaches take up 3.4% of those positions despite at least 25% of players coming from BME backgrounds.". This appears to be a damning statistic, but is it a bit of a false stat. The majority of coaches have played some sort of pro/semi pro football and generally are older then players maybe around 40+ for the majority. So surely a more accurate statistic would be to look at the % ethnic minorities playing 10 years ago. I would imagine a lot less then 25%. A graph showing the %of EM players vs %EM coaches would be much more useful. Also other aspects such as how many of the EM playing are from this country and likely to stay here to coach? How many EMs actually take coaching courses at he various levels? EMs may have a lower income then the white British on average, does this mean they have less access to courses? It seems that this report has set out with an agenda and made sure they achieved it. Or it has been reported in a biased manner within the press. As I said I have not read the report. I would be surprised if racism is as prevalent as they suggest. Most clubs I believe would pick the best person regardless of colour. It is after all a results based business. Racism at grass roots level maybe more of an issue. This is not to say nothing should be done about it. Although I am not a fan of the Rooney rule. They do state "research also suggests there is an over-reliance within professional clubs of "network-based" methods of recruitment.". Which I fully believe and this is almost certainly a barrier for any coach trying to get into the game. I would say they need to focus on making training courses accessible to all. Challenge racism at grass roots Make sure the recruitment process is transparent But I dont agree with the use of a Rooney rule. Nor am I convince that it is as much of an issue as they let on. Certainly within the pro clubs. What do you guys think? What if anything should be done?
I simply do not believe that rascism in football is a bad as they're trying to make out. Do you honestly think that there is a single English club who would not appoint a manager because of his skin colour, even though he was without doubt the best man for the job ? Utter balderdash, however, cue positive dicrimination
Speaking as someone who has just been on a coaching course there was not a single black guy on the course. Not sure why, but it's nothing to do with racism. Maybe because in Norfolk there don't seem to be as many black people? Like I said not sure. If there was someone black there I can tell you that there wouldn't of been any racism there. Maybe, for some other reason than racism that black people don't want to become coaches? Look at how many Asian/Indian coaches there are? I can't think of one to be honest. But if there was and they were good then I have no doubt they would be employed by a top club. The problem is, these days everyone is looking for a reason why things are not even! It's beyond madness sometimes. Sometimes, it's just the way it is. Not everything can be even and make sense on paper.
He may have his critics but he (Karl Oyston) spoke a lot of sense in this interview http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29611658 Also, the BBC ran an article on Keith Curle and his views http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29490148 A very astute comment on the proposed rooney rule.. "If you said that for every job vacancy from the Premier League to League Two you had to have one non-white manager available for interview, is there going to be a realistic chance of them getting every job?" "Are they just going to be there to tick a box? I don't see the point if you're only going to be there so someone can tick a box." I think those two succinctly cover my views
Agree with the above. It is generally a few isolated incidents in football that are racist now. Of course 1 is still too many, but I do feel some of this is making a mountain out of a mole hill. But maybe there is more revealing info in the report.
Personally, I think having this system would encourage more black people to go for jobs. Don't see what harm it does, you can still see the people you had in mind. There is obviously a feeling amongst black players they cannot progress into management or are not getting coaches encouraging them to develop. I'm sure there are plenty more Malkay Mackays out there. It remains a part of the management culture because there are so few black people around.
I would be very surprised if we have any black posters on this board as I am not black I tend not to get involved in these types of debates. Such is the crazy amount of money in the Premier league the owners can hire anyone they want, you don't see anyone getting involved with Goldman Sachs insisting they appoint a non white Jewish CEO and for most top clubs they are run like a corporation .
And what keith Curle is not understanding is that the black person (low and behold) may actually impress in an interview. There are plenty of **** white managers and coaches out there working, the lower leagues are infested with them. Just ask Ipswich.
Sorry if this offends anyone but with the exception of Hughton (and some people will dispute this) I can't really recall any black managers ever doing anything special in English football. Maybe that's why there isn't that many around in the same way that maybe women footballers get paid less because there isn't so much demand for them? Don't people think of these things?
Stands to reason if 1% (if that) of all managers are black there are not going to be very many making a name for themselves. Same as why we have we not had any successful women, fish or slugs managing in the football league.
I thought in some ways their point about "network based recruitment methods" is more of an issue. How many people get employed because they are mates with the owner, manager, coaches etc. As in the past there were almost exclusively all white managers, I would imagine this has more of an impact on who gets a chance or not. Not due to racism but more because they get their mates a job.
Do they not have black friends? There is definitely a white only culture in football management. Its not by chance.
But due to their age (40/50+) the chances are they have far more white friends. The number of ethnic minority players has increased to 25% quite quickly. It has not always been like that. Many people who are in management positions now played in the 80s and early 90s. I dont know the % of ethnic minorities who played then, but much much less then 25%
It depends how you define "successful". I'd say Sam Allardyce is a fairly successful fish slug. By comparison to other fish slugs, that is.
Carrabuh is bang on. I don't really understand the hostility that people have towards such proposals. In an ideal world we wouldn't need a rule but there is clearly a need for a change of culture in football management and you have to take affirmative action to change the culture gradually over time. It won't happen by itself.
Im not so much against it, more that I feel there are better options. For example I would much prefer a fair and transparent screening and interviewing process. It should not be just "oh lets invite one ethnic minority candidate". Everyone should have a fair chance.
Yep, joking aside there is absolutely no harm in having this sort of measure. "Affirmative action" is the right phrase. The clubs are under no obligation to hire the candidate, but it at least gives them a foot in the door and encourages minorities to throw their hat in where otherwise they wouldn't. However, the one thing I would say is that I don't think it should be a compulsory "interview one minority candidate" rule - you risk bringing the system to a standstill while there are so few minority candidates available. It needs to be watered down a bit with some legalese. Maybe "use all reasonable endeavours to interview at least one minority candidate on your shortlist". Something like that.
How do you determine a fair chance though? Sometimes leverage is needed to make it fair. It's hardly fair if people aren't getting interviewed because of the colour of their skin. I don't think there are discussions along the lines of "Oh, let's not hire that guy because he is black" (at least I hope not). I think it is more the case that because there is such little association of black people being in management positions they aren't even thought of when compiling a shortlist.
