I guess before I pose the following question I should add, I am fully supportive of the PST bid, I am 100% behind a fans buy out and have made my pledge..... The question I have is simple........why, or how did they arrive at the price of £1000.00 per share? The reason I ask this is also simple...........according to their press releases, when they come out, they have raised some where in the region of 3m.......of which nearlly 1m is from three high net worth private investors.......one of which is wanting to become Chairman if the bid is successful. So I am assuming that the figure of just over 2m is based on what they expect to actually get in when and if the pledges are required? if this is correct, then some 2000 fans including non dedicated PFC fans and ex players have pledged..........considering that there was near 18,000 at FP for our opener last weekend............then thats not actually that great is it? I dont want to appear negative, but surely a lower figure of investment would have brought about a larger number of investers? simple maths suggests that if 12,000 of the 18,000 fans last weekend had put in 250.00 each total, the PST would have an investment figure to start with of 3,000,000 plus any other individual high net worth investers and a council loan........possibly some where near 6M! I would have thought that a lower investment share figure would have brought in a larger number of investers? Possibly even a larger audience of investers out side of the loyal and devout supporters? If the PST read this please consider it, I have sent mails direct with no repsonse...........and if I have got my figures wrong then appologies........... PUP, who ever is in charge! BP
Why are you worrying? That very nice Mr Chanrai will be your new owner in a couple of weeks. The PST will disappear as will 'Appy as Mr Chanrai doesn't think much of him and the feeling is probably mutual. Your club will be asset stripped and then folded. All very tragic.
I have followed all of this with great interest BP and I agree with you on so many levels. Having worked in charities for 25 years or so, most of that time heading up the Finance departments, I can see the correlation between charities and sports clubs. Charities are run as businesses but exist only for the beneficiaries, ie its users/supporters. Football clubs are run as businesses but they seem to me to be a hybrid kind of organisation in that without their supporters they cannot exist. The trust pledge was based on the Supporters Direct (which is a charity/co-operative trust) mode of operation - ie 1 member 1 vote. Although they haven't come out with their calculation I believe they came up with a figure, calculated how many supporters might buy a share and divided that to come up with the £1k. I do know they were looking for high net value fans to invest as well. I believe they overestimated the number of people with £1k to spare. That they were caught on the hop is obvious when it became apparent that many supporters would not be able to find that sum, so they came up with the credit union deal, then they took up the consortium idea. They did publish that 1670 fans have pledged - that is £1,670,000 - you may find the balance is made up of smaller donations from people who couldn't purchase a whole share. They didn't do their research. Stenhousemuir in Scotland has turned into a part fan owned club - the owner wanted the fans to buy him out and the club is now a Community Interest Club. Their shares are £375 - they knew the fans couldn't find £375 at once so they can purchase 1/10th share at £37.50 but 10 makes you a voting member. By setting the price too high they priced out thousands of would be shareholders. Setting the price at a 1/10th share at £100, or a 1/4 share at £250 would have brought in a lot of fans who aren't bothered about having a "vote" as such and a full share at £1k would have brought in the same amount of people (although some of them would also have bought the smaller shares as well for their wives/kids/grandkids etc). It may be that they were worried that if they set a smaller share price then everyone would go for the lowest amount. They also priced out the wider population of Portsmouth who, although they aren't interested in attending matches, understand the value of the community work the club does. My own sister would have bought a "share" for £100 because of the work in the community which she says is very valuable, but as she has no interest in football is not going to part with £1000. I saw lots of posters on the News trying to find people to partner up with to buy a share and just this week saw the firemen in Hayling trying to raise £1k. They could also have made the offer more widely available, I'm sure there are many football fans who would quite happily buy into a football club just to see one run by the fans. I read something recently from someone who asked if there was a "giving" site anywhere as their club often undertake collections for other clubs, having recently raised £25k for a club somewhere near to them (wish I could remember where I saw that). It's a pity they haven't responded to you - I know they are doing this in their own spare time but perhaps they should have brought more people on board to help out.
Exactly. It's the same reason why the 50% tax rate has been reduced. Some people argue it's unfair, but it's the same economic principle of what you're proposing the Trust should have followed (to which I agree).
Being slightly cynical the more people who can pledge money, the more people have a vote, the lesser the power and influence of the high net worth individuals. I'm sure survival is the 1st concern of the PST, but future decision making must be at the back of their minds.
Quite agree - but what is apparent is that there are not enough people around able to part with £1k - there are a variety of ways that this could have been addressed with different types of shares issued.
I received a response from the PST today, it reads: "If only you knew how much effort went into setting the share price. Suffice to say it had to cover all costs including legal fees etc. and we took advice from many quarters including of course, Supporters' Direct. That said, many fans are donating smaller amounts. We've looked at ways of building to a full share over time but have yet to find a method that is practical - rest assured we will continue to try to find ways for everybody to have an input. Your figures are about right and our revised offer has just been lodged with the administrator. One thing to remember is that however much we raise (and pledges are still coming in at a steady rate) we are determined to run the club on a sustainable budget. It is our members' money and we must be responsible with it." Ken PUP So there you have it, the good old legal fees card.........., tell me, what bearing does that have per share price? I understand there are legal implications in everything we do in life pretty much, so to isue share certificates and register it comes with a fee............so how much of the 1K share value is "legal fees" etc? BP
Thanks for the info BP. Bloody legal fees. It's only a few hundred years since your typical 21st Century lawyer would have been burnt as a witch!
If as BP had suggested the shares were £250 each, some people might still have bought more than one and even more than 4.
I'm pretty sure you're right. The most disappointing thing really is the poor communication from the trust to the fans/pledgees - I don't see how letting them know how they had arrived at the figure for the shares would break any non-disclosure agreement or put them at a commercial disadvantage.
The thing that is bugging me...........and the whole reason I brought this up is to have the question posed "why does the share have to be 1K"? It could have been/ be less per person........with more.........way more investors, yet the response avoids the direct question again!!!! I like a few thousand others are fortunate enough to have the finances to pledge the amount asked...........but having stood amongst the masses at FP last weekend for the opener.........as I suspected the talk was from so many who just cant afford it.............can you imagine how many blokes stood on those terraces saying I want to do it, I want to be part of it.........but the "missus would never agree"! I heard it all afternoon, whilst having my dinner in the GC, to walking down velder Ave to the ground etc etc...........a much smaller amount will undoubtedly find more investors. If any one from the PST is reading these posts.......please have a re think...........so many more people want to help us buy the club.............! PUP, BP
I have to say BP that the response is one I'd expect from a politician - skirting round seeming to answer but not actually doing it. I still think the PST were caught on the hop. It was absolutely obvious that we would go into admin back in November when Antonov was arrested and his assets were siezed by the Lithuanians. The share pledge wasn't launched until 30 March, 4 months later. They could have considered different classes of shares to capture everyone - but they didn't, they missed a trick there. But I'm not sure anyone from the trust reads the posts on this forum. Which is a shame because there have been some very intelligent debates about the whole issue.
It sounds like a really tough issue for the PST. I remember when Saints had gone down from the Championship there were people with buckets outside the stadium collecting loose change for "Save Our Saints". It was a complete waste of time. The bottom line is whatever way you do the multiplication, trying to raise several million from a football club fanbase is an extremely difficult task. To put it another way, if Pompey were Saints and the SST wanted £1,000 pledges for a share, would I part with my student loan to do it? I have to be honest and say it is unlikely. I would probably be happy to give £100 or so but anything more than that would be tough. Another issue is how much supporters believe that the PST would be able to a. save Pompey and b. turn them into a competitive side, clearly if they are doubtful then they are less likely to offer their cash. But as I have said before I hope the PST can do it as much as any of you.
Matt Le God pointed this out a month or so back... He may be a summer but he got his facts correct, unlike the trust by the looks of things :/
