Prof Devine on the proposed legislation

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RebelBhoy

RebelBhoy

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Jan 26, 2011
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Tom Devine does a number on the legislation

links for the next ezine..
Tom Devine does a number on the legislation

Are songs political or sectarian?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUqifXi8E4k

UEFA Fine for Scotland's Shame FC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLczHYuaYr8

Current legislation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6_mXwcBlQM

Questioned on the stats
[video=youtube;j476h2WuoEg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j476h2WuoEg&feature=player_embedded[/video]
[video=youtube;j476h2WuoEg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j476h2WuoEg&feature=player_embedded[/video]
 
At least he's independent and impartial......

There is next to ZERO sectarianism in Scotland bar from a minority of bigots on BOTH sides who shame themselves.

The Good prof has made a few bob out of inventing the Sectarianism industry in this country, guys like him and the QC who were largely unheard of in Scotland before being thrust upon us by the dwindling media who like to boost sales by creating non stories to keep employed.

It's actually depressing.

I'd fully support Scottish independence and independence from the EU if it wasn't for the lunatic fringe in politics and the media who pander to these cretins who invented this industry to line their own pockets.

Our national game is dying and here we are talking about songs FFS!!
 
EDGE said:
At least he's independent and impartial......

There is next to ZERO sectarianism in Scotland bar from a minority of bigots on BOTH sides who shame themselves.

The Good prof has made a few bob out of inventing the Sectarianism industry in this country, guys like him and the QC who were largely unheard of in Scotland before being thrust upon us by the dwindling media who like to boost sales by creating non stories to keep employed.

It's actually depressing.

I'd fully support Scottish independence and independence from the EU if it wasn't for the lunatic fringe in politics and the media who pander to these cretins who invented this industry to line their own pockets.

Our national game is dying and here we are talking about songs FFS!!
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more <ok>

I'm not one for singing any of the songs that are consistently talked about. I just don't see what they've got to do with football.

The over-reaction to a few complete fannybaws is ridiculous though.
 
EDGE said:
At least he's independent and impartial......

There is next to ZERO sectarianism in Scotland bar from a minority of bigots on BOTH sides who shame themselves.

The Good prof has made a few bob out of inventing the Sectarianism industry in this country, guys like him and the QC who were largely unheard of in Scotland before being thrust upon us by the dwindling media who like to boost sales by creating non stories to keep employed.

It's actually depressing.

I'd fully support Scottish independence and independence from the EU if it wasn't for the lunatic fringe in politics and the media who pander to these cretins who invented this industry to line their own pockets.

Our national game is dying and here we are talking about songs FFS!!
Click to expand...

Spot on Edge...
 
RB: Interesting! A bit reluctant to raise this on the Celtic ]football forum but can you enlighten me in respect of legislation passed in Northern Ireland (or the North of Ireland if you prefer) to deal with 'discrimination' which also covers 'sectarianism' ie Section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998) and the promotion of a culture of rights and responsibilities (stemming from the Human Rights Act 1998). Does this legislation cover the sort of 'sectarianism' that the proposed Scottish legislation is attempting to tackle or is it only in Scotland that this (I would suggest, practically impossible to administer) type of legislation is being attempted?

Edge: You will know much more about the situation in Scotland than I do but as you state that "There is next to ZERO sectarianism in Scotland......." can you tell me on what basis you have reached this conclusion?
 
EspaniaCelt said:
Edge: You will know much more about the situation in Scotland than I do but as you state that "There is next to ZERO sectarianism in Scotland......." can you tell me on what basis you have reached this conclusion?
Click to expand...

Just living here for 32 years <ok>
 
That place reminds me of Belfast in the 80s. Turn it in lads, for **** sake <ok>
 
EspaniaCelt said:
Ah...personal experience - fair enough Edge, although I don't think that would be considered as impartial or a scientific analysis LOL! But good luck to you -long may you never be subjected to it!
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LOL indeed.

Scotland in 2011 has a small problem with a small amount of people who hate for hates sake.

Every society has this minority.

The expense and time spent on this is Scotlands real shame. Not a couple of hardened bigots who are too retaded to see what they really are.

Unfortunately, the lunatics have taken over the asylum these days.
 
Edge must keep his eyes shut and ears covered when he is at Ibrox (if he is ever there) or all summer he doesn't seem to hear or see the hangers on at the O.O. and other Loyalist Parades.
The entire aim of the bears is to have the historic and political songs sang by Celtic fans to be treated in the same way as the evil hate filled bigoted and sectarian songs sang by Rangers fans that UEFA have ruled on a number of occasions as sectarian.
The Scottish Assembly also wants Celtic fans to be treated as Rangers fans.
This is diabolical as outside of Scotland, neutral authorities have regularly charged Rangers fans with various forms of misconduct. As we all know Celtic fans have been acclaimed by UEFA and FIFA as the best fans in the world.
Yet back home some of the people in authority wants to put us in the same category as them.
 
EspaniaCelt said:
RB: Interesting! A bit reluctant to raise this on the Celtic ]football forum but can you enlighten me in respect of legislation passed in Northern Ireland (or the North of Ireland if you prefer) to deal with 'discrimination' which also covers 'sectarianism' ie Section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998) and the promotion of a culture of rights and responsibilities (stemming from the Human Rights Act 1998). Does this legislation cover the sort of 'sectarianism' that the proposed Scottish legislation is attempting to tackle or is it only in Scotland that this (I would suggest, practically impossible to administer) type of legislation is being attempted?

Edge: You will know much more about the situation in Scotland than I do but as you state that "There is next to ZERO sectarianism in Scotland......." can you tell me on what basis you have reached this conclusion?
Click to expand...

You have pretty much nailed it already as far as I can see. The legislation here in the O6 is about "the promotion of a culture of rights and responsibilities"
whereas the proposed legislation in Scotland is specifically about the offence of being involved in sectarian or offensive behaviour. That means you can't call the Huns,Huns because it is offensive and the Huns can't sing about being up to their knees as it is sectarian. Both shall be prosecuted under the banner of "anti-sectarian" legislation. There are already instruments available to deal with the majority of these offences but as there is a bee in the collective bonnet to deal with sectarianism, then there appears to be a determination to push it through.

I composed an article recently about it for an online publication hitting similar notes to Prof Devine, but nowhere close to being as eloquent as him. There is a lot of merit to what wedginald has said about the sectarian industry but I think he is directing his ire in the wrong places.
 
superhoops said:
Edge must keep his eyes shut and ears covered when he is at Ibrox (if he is ever there) or all summer he doesn't seem to hear or see the hangers on at the O.O. and other Loyalist Parades.
The entire aim of the bears is to have the historic and political songs sang by Celtic fans to be treated in the same way as the evil hate filled bigoted and sectarian songs sang by Rangers fans that UEFA have ruled on a number of occasions as sectarian.
The Scottish Assembly also wants Celtic fans to be treated as Rangers fans.
This is diabolical as outside of Scotland, neutral authorities have regularly charged Rangers fans with various forms of misconduct. As we all know Celtic fans have been acclaimed by UEFA and FIFA as the best fans in the world.
Yet back home some of the people in authority wants to put us in the same category as them.
Click to expand...

I do agree with you. As evidenced by the Huns recent response looking for the Rebel songs to be explicitly defined under the legislation, and that ain't gonna happen. Instead of opposing the legislation, they have reverted to "aye.....but whataboot"
 
RebelBhoy said:
You have pretty much nailed it already as far as I can see. The legislation here in the O6 is about "the promotion of a culture of rights and responsibilities"
whereas the proposed legislation in Scotland is specifically about the offence of being involved in sectarian or offensive behaviour. That means you can't call the Huns,Huns because it is offensive and the Huns can't sing about being up to their knees as it is sectarian. Both shall be prosecuted under the banner of "anti-sectarian" legislation. There are already instruments available to deal with the majority of these offences but as there is a bee in the collective bonnet to deal with sectarianism, then there appears to be a determination to push it through.

I composed an article recently about it for an online publication hitting similar notes to Prof Devine, but nowhere close to being as eloquent as him. There is a lot of merit to what wedginald has said about the sectarian industry but I think he is directing his ire in the wrong places.
Click to expand...

Thanks RB - is there any chance or is there any indication that 'common' sense might prevail in all of this.....before the 'authorities' jump into a 'black hole' - and that really would be a fine mess....? (I don't think I've ever come across original complicated legislation anywhere which doesn't end up having to be drastically revised due to the gaping loopholes not covered - but, hey, why should that make them think twice eh!)
 
A piece of legislation recently came onto the statute books here in the O6 that was pretty much nicked verbatim from england, apart from a bit they borrowed from Scotland. The problem came after it became apparent that they contradicted each other. Some parts of the act have become live and others not and the timetable for introducing the legislation defies logic. They don't want to admit they made a mistake, so pressed on regardless.

This Scottish legislation doesn't do what it purports to do, it is set to criminalise our support, and sections of the huns support who may not be indulging in sectarian behaviour. It doesn't make any sense at all. i understand that people don't like offence being directed at them but as far as i see it disliking ones rivals is part of the attraction of the sport. They are called invasion games for a purpose.
 
No surprises there then! It's amazing how 'bright sparks' the world over think a piece of legislation is the answer to a country's ills - and isn't it the usual practice to look at what another country has produced and try to make that fit ....which invariably it never does. Enforcing it then becomes a nightmare. Lawyers must rub their hands in glee at the prospect of making a lot more money from the inadequate machinations of such legislators.

Unless there really is a darker 'Establishment' agenda though, surely the Scottish authorities will ultimately realize the folly of what they are doing and seek to remedy the problem in other ways?
 
I'd say not. The push is really on to combat "sectarianism". except they don't want to identify exactly what it is. They'll pat each other on the back and congratulate each other on a job nicely done.
 
So do you think it's just a cynical exercise by the authorities to be seen to be doing something (rather a serious attempt to resolve the problem) and if it fails they can say that at least they attempted to resolve it.....or is it a serious attempt which falls woefully short due to gross incompetence on their part?
 
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