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Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by LuisDiazgamechanger, Jul 6, 2018.
A bit like Eric Meijer
Tin Hat will have walked by the end of the season.
jurgen klopp first signings:
Marko Grujic - advised by scouts
Steven Caulker - nobody has ever figured this one out.
Kamil Grabara - kid for academy - more scouts.
Sadio Mané - klopp was on record as having watched him at dortmund when he was at salzburg and mane ripped us up in one game when klopp was manager.
Loris Karius - german keeper
Joël Matip - klopps first request, sorted that january on precontract. clear signing form own league
Ragnar Klavan - cheap cover from germany
Alex Manninger - guess what??
so when we give ten hag critique about players i think its fair to say klopp had to get his feet under the table as well. time and patience is needed with all of this and the mancs/media are absolutely savage right now. People like garry neville need to get a bit of perspective and stop acting out and ****.
the reality check is what can ten hag do to improve the massive squad he has to get a core side together to then build on.
I will say it again.
If you want high press, high line, high intensity then maguire AND de gea must go. You could train maguire to stand and play offside and play head the ball after that (a bit ) but you'll never train de gea to sweep up now. Mancs need to start there.
Manc squad issues Ten hag has
GK: De gea, Henderson (loaned and mouthed off) Heaton. not one single GK that is a sweeper.
RB: Wan bissaka, dalot - not exactly a stellar selection choice here.
CB: Lindeloff, maguire, Bailly, Jones, varane, martinez - not a lot of pace or confidence left. a big job to find 4 out of that. (have some left yet)
LB: shaw (weight issues)tellez This is really an eye sore.
CMS: Fred. Mctominay. FACKING HELL! (no wonder he was desperate for de jong)
ACMS: fernandes, eriksen Van de beek (how many does he think he needs as 8/10s)
Forwards Martial (hapless) rashofrd (no hunger) greenwood (say no more) Sancho. elanga
Striker: Ronaldo (wants out) no wonder he wants an emergency option in arunotivic.
Its fairly easy make an 11 out of all of that but if you started clearing the dead wood the squad depth would vanish totally.
Brightn abject result:
Dalot Maguire Martinez Shaw
Mctominay fred Fernandes
Sancho Eriksen Rashford
Benched: ronaldo, varane, Bissaka, Van de beek, elanga
Its actually scary for them looking at that and joyous for the rest of us. Theres massive change required to get this thing firing.
Surely change 1 is varane for maguire.
Surely you go 4231 if you have an eriksen and a sancho and such.
the first change should be that manager thanking the fans for turning up and apologising for ruining their day and then begging them to support him and his players as they try to change.
There is that, but nobody I know was expecting to build a world class team looking to be challenging in one transfer window. First and foremost we need to build a team and progress to the next stage where Ten Hag has a group of players he can coach and who buy into his philosophy. He probably has more confidence in doing that with the players he knows in a league he's familiar with. And probably the technical ability of the players coming through there to do that.
I'll echo MITO's post about Klopp above AND add that as I recall the results in that first season weren't the priority, what was clear was the change in style, the existing players as much as any new signings buying into that style. When you see that you know the club is heading in the right direction. That feeling (and I remember it well among Livpl fans regardless of the piss-taking at the time) is what I'm looking for.
Very much so. And I think they will. There's a lot of good faith among fans towards Ten Hag. All I know think he's the real deal and the best choice we could've made. Most also aren't expecting miracles, just a better style of football.
well as long as none are expecting 2 wingers and 2 strikers like a lot were moaning on about "since ferguson left"
I personally think it'll be a long road to get the profession coaching and fitness/science staff round him even never mind playing staff.
as i said no 1 on the list to go should be your keeper. theres no way you can play a high line without a sweeper keeper.
No high line, no high press.
No high press, no intensity.
Varane has been pretty poor himself at Utd and is injured almost as often as AOC plus if they play Martinez and Varane they will be very vulnerable to high balls in fact Toney will already be planning how to pull onto Martinez as much as possible next weekend
You have to trust the manager here though. He's played the high press, he knows he isn't going to change everything in one go. He's brought in Martinez and stuck with Maguire and Varane so must have a plan. I think what's been the bigger problem is that CM position as he would've factored this was more important to build from but De Jong aint coming.
I know it's not the main point of contention in this discussion but Klopp, in his first (half) season, took us to the LC and EL finals and managed to get us a couple of places higher up the league than when he took over. Can Ten Hag make that kind of impact in a similar situation?
Patience is key but he also has to give the fans some great footballing experiences and hope of what's to come like we had with Klopp.
Can Ten Hag do it? Probably not
He took over in October 2015; not sure where we were in October but we finished the season in 8th place and 60 points, two points and two places behind the season before. But yes we did reach the cup finals and the following year we finished 4th with 76 points.
We were mid table when he took over I believe. So he got us higher up the table than when he first joined
Just found it; we were 10th. So yes we did improve position a bit, but it was also less than 10 games into the league season (the writing was on the wall though).
In fairness we put absolutely everything into europa league. Ended up 8th and lost the final.
We cut our cloth to get 4th the next season (mane) and got 4th.
Man utd are 6th or so now. They want 4th today. The new man has to build his team to do that.
Apparently the pot was too hot and someone has got scalded as utd have runnscreaming away from arunotovic.
Fans and media have spoken and utd prove again there wasn't a plan.
I suppose next it'll be it was a baseless rumour.
If he was willing to take on a club in turmoil then you'd think he would have, not only a plan but a workable plan. I can't say I'm paying any attention to utd other than these few comments but from what people are saying here it's all looking a bit Pete Tong.
I suspect there was a plan but it was as far as we could see to the end of our nose. So... go for Nunez, if that doesn't happen go for Antony. The problem was that when it became clear from Ajax's stance that Antony wasn't going anywhere we persisted with it because there was no other player sourced. Martial who was having a good pre-season gets injured so now that lack of foresight has come to bight us on the arse.
We're now going for Cody Gapko apparently (once again because Ten Hag has identified him).
All of this goes back to the earlier point that there seems to be a vacuum in terms of what the club/scouts are doing to source players for specific positions and every one is currently being relied upon by Ten Hag himself. That is where we are and as has been said a major overhaul is needed but won't happen right now so Ten Hag has to do what he can right now.
Surely though someone somewhere in the utd structure could say it doesn't matter how good martial looks he is going to fade or get injured or just not be bothered?
This again goes back to the hierarchy and decisions to appoint ragnarick as caretaker and then some faux dof role. If they were serious it'd be like city have gone and targets the best going (at the time) and picked barca clean of technical staff. Start there, then the manager and then start with players?
Like.... lfc are not any better cos its all to klopps tune. Bayern dominate Germany and will dominate due to fan base but also the structure what doesn't allow drop in performance etc.
Neither of us have that.
I'd for sure complete what you've said in the board room and directors and scouts. Surely it can't be that hard to target players, talk to agents and get a real feel for who's serious and who's a ****.
And de jong should have been moved off 2 months ago... that's what should have happened.
Defo this. But is it surprising when you've had 9 years of a fan boy with money like Woody in charge who didn't really give a fck about scouting and just went with the big names. Any surprise our scouting is shot to ****?
BTW we do now have DOF. He was appointed a few months ago. John Murtough. I just thought that he and the new CEO would've been planning ahead.
Appreciate they couldn't actually target anyone until Ten Hag arrives but they could've sourced players, talked to agents and got a feel so that when Ten Hag arrived in May there was a plan of action.
After all, the board and CEO interviewed and identified the next manager to suit the style of football and ethos they wanted the club to head in.
As has been mentioned, a new manager - especially one with a different style - needs to be given time. Also mentioned was the fact that Klopp wasn't immediately successful, but he did make an immediate and obvious difference.
A lot of United's current fan base grew up on the continued success of the Fergie era so there's a sense of entitlement there. Nigh on a decade of mediocrity is hard for that type of fan to swallow. Will they give Ten Hag the time he needs if there is no obvious improvement in the short term? I only saw the highlights of the weekend game, but it looked a bit familiar, tbh.
I think he needs to give the fans something to look forward to pretty quickly, especially as so many are disaffected with the Glazers.