Power, pace and English managers

[carrabuh]

I used to come on this site many years ago and argue against the need size and physicality in football.

It seems to me we have gone full circle back to physical traits instead of the skill and technique of Farke.

Now I wouldn't personally employ an English manager in a million years.. They are flaky, no real belief in what they do and are incapable of producing good football.

I really do hope I'm wrong but with the language being used and the types of player we are signing and potentially losing (Nunez) it is not looking good.

We are being turned into those dreadful West Brom, Watford, Stoke, Burnley and everyone in the press and fans seem to be delighted.

The team did need some robustness added, but this is extreme.

I liked the new CBs and Kvisgaarden. But signing Stacey, Diallo, Makama, a now overweight Crnac, Topic is indicating a pretty basic formula of football.

I really don't get why people seem to want this.

 

[Golden Eadie 2]

Not sure where you get Crnac to be overweight from. And don't denigrate it until you have seen it in action. It could be a thing of beauty.

 

[chinacanary]

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this looks like grace and danger to me!

 

[1950canary]

A real name from the past - welcome back. I agree with you entirely. Watching European football and watching Nice every home game I have to say that football on the continent is more skill based with less emphasis on power and pace. Playing out from the back is an essential part of the game leading to youngsters being coached in learning how to pass under pressure from a very early age. In the UK it is a later add on so defenders get caught with the ball or are forced into mistakes leading to sections of the crowd demanding they ' hoof it up the middle ' ignoring the fact that all you are doing is giving the ball away. The top teams in the UK pay European teams over the odds for the sort of player that will fit into the UK model as with the strikers that Arsenal and Manure have just bought. They are not worth the money paid. Villa are just about to buy Guessand from us for £30m - he is nowhere near as good as Sargent. Having said all that if the question arises as to which style is more exciting to watch - I would hesitate to express an opinion.

 

[NorthCityCanary]

Indeed 1950C, looking at So'ton last season it was abundantly clear the players couldn't manage playing out form the back under the pressure of a press, yet Martin kept trying it to insanities sake, leading to either giving a goal away, or (as you say) hoofing it and facing more pressure.

As Carrabuh says, robustness is welcome to our squad, it's certainly been missing from midfield since Tettey moved on, and at the back post early Klose days.
The main issue I see is that the Championship style is all hustle & bustle, so to be promoted team's require strength and power, less reliance on technical skills as players will get bumped off the ball. Once into the EPL however, there's more time on the ball so you can afford technically gifted players and forego strength, apart from a Caicedo mold player. This is where team's will struggle, as short of 'doing a Forest' and having multiple players on loan and being able to 'swap squads' there's not enough budget to purchase the players needed.

I also don't see Crnac coming good (i.e. a regular to displace Sargent or scoring >10 goals, said something similar last season).

 

[carrabuh]

Power and pace does not generally get you promoted from the championship.

I think this is a myth.

The lower you go the more "size" seems to be the dogma. Size does not make you better, nor does it give you options, size is restrictive.

Topic does look good defensively however I have a horrible feeling these awful long balls he plays are seen as some sort of tactical advantage. They are not, fast low passes score goals. Not long slow crossfield balls that can be spotted a mile off.

I really hope Manning proves me wrong but Diallo, Mepeno and Topic is sending all the wrong signals to me for ****ty football and non productive wingplay.

 

[Robbie BB]

..........as to which style is more exciting to watch - I would hesitate to express an opinion.

I'd much rather watch a stalemate between two highly skilled teams, than a high-speed, bruising slugfest decided by brute strength.
Talking of which, last night's Championship opening match between Birmingham and Ipswich perfectly illustrated Carrabuh's fears. Short on technical ability, substituting aggression for subtlety, and descending into cynical fouls, pushing and shoving, and deliberate provocation.

 

[SuffolkCanary]

Good to hear from you carrabuh.

I would like to think that we have found a good mix of power/strength and technical ability in our new recruits.

Medic and Darling should increase our defensive physicality along with Cordoba, but they are also described as competent ball playing defenders which would suggest that they carry a good level of technical ability.

The diagram that Robbie posted on another thread regarding Topic shows a good duel winner with the ability to play forward passes, again hopefully a good combination of physicality and technical ability.

Far from recruiting simply for physicality, I would suggest we have moved away from that with the recent departures of Hanley, Barnes and Hernandez and the likely departures of Duffy.

 

[Golden Eadie 2]

I like your theory Suffolk. Our new defensive recruits would seem to be both physically able as well as possessing football skills giving them a more creative skill set. In the Breda game I never once saw a player stop, put a foot on the ball, look around and pass sideways/backwards. I great improvement on recent seasons. The players were aware of what they were going to do before receiving the ball meaning no faffing about at the back.


Edit-: faffing about at the back is a technical term used by the cognoscenti of the game.

 

[Canary Rob]

I’m enjoying Carrabuh’s return to the Ipswich board most of all

 

[RiverEndRick]

I agree with Suffolk that the new recruits have increased the technical capabilities of the team whilst also increasing the physical presence (no bad things IMO). Darling has always impressed me as a very capable CB who also scores goals. I wasn't sure about Medić at first but having seen him in preseason his defending is sound and he has a good range of passing to progress the ball out of defence. Diallo has pace, but he also has ball handling skills and his ability to play as a WB in preseason impressed me on both sides of the ball. People seem to presume that Topić is going to be a physical player, which he can be, but he prefers to take on opposing players and steal the ball with his long legs and quick footwork as Robbie's diagram shows:

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[Golden Eadie 2]

Rick, I think you might want to re-phrase "Diallo has ball HANDLING skills".

 

[RiverEndRick]

Rick, I think you might want to re-phrase "Diallo has ball HANDLING skills".

Football has many secrets.

 

[carrabuh]

I agree with Suffolk that the new recruits have increased the technical capabilities of the team whilst also increasing the physical presence (no bad things IMO). Darling has always impressed me as a very capable CB who also scores goals. I wasn't sure about Medić at first but having seen him in preseason his defending is sound and he has a good range of passing to progress the ball out of defence. Diallo has pace, but he also has ball handling skills and his ability to play as a WB in preseason impressed me on both sides of the ball. People seem to presume that Topić is going to be a physical player, which he can be, but he prefers to take on opposing players and steal the ball with his long legs and quick footwork as Robbie's diagram shows:

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This chart is not great because you dont know what number is high or low. If you add steps taken, it would look like he is predominantly a player who gets round the field when he may not.

 

[RiverEndRick]

This chart is not great because you dont know what number is high or low. If you add steps taken, it would look like he is predominantly a player who gets round the field when he may not.

It's measured in percentiles based on all CMs and DMs in Portugal's Primera Ligue, which is a reasonably high level. I see it as indicative of his strengths and weaknesses rather than an exact measure, which is difficult in football.

 

[carrabuh]

It's measured in percentiles based on all CMs and DMs in Portugal's Primera Ligue, which is a reasonably high level. I see it as indicative of his strengths and weaknesses rather than an exact measure, which is difficult in football.

Sorry yes, I should have checked the chart title.

 

[carrabuh]

Although, I find it strange you say we are technically better.

I mean Duffy is not at all technical I'll give you that.

But not starting Nunez, playing Chrisene, Makamo, Stacey. These are not technically good players. I quite like Topicbut hes not mobile and he plays those dreadful long balls

 

[RiverEndRick]

Although, I find it strange you say we are technically better.

I mean Duffy is not at all technical I'll give you that.

But not starting Nunez, playing Chrisene, Makamo, Stacey. These are not technically good players. I quite like Topicbut hes not mobile and he plays those dreadful long balls

I agree with you about Núñez, who IMO should have started. Topić hasn't had time to integrate with the rest of the squad and in any case, Núñez could have hopefully provided the creativity so sorely lacking. There wasn't much to see when he came on for the last 26 minutes, but he might have made a difference when we were on top in the first half. Crisene was the only option to replace Schlupp (who I thought did ok) after 70 minutes. It's a pity Mahovo is injured. Crnac offered very little over 70 minutes so Makama coming on then seemed reasonable and I thought he did ok. He's only 21, so let's give him a chance. As for Medić, perhaps I put the kiss of death on him when I said he'd been technically sound in the preseason.