Been announced today.... From RP POUR MOI, ante-post favourite for the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe, will not race again and is to be retired to Coolmore for the 2012 breeding season,the stud announced on Saturday. The spectacular Derby winner suffered a severe overreach to his near-fore fetlock during exercise at Chantilly on Friday morning, Coolmore said on their Twitter account. Rumours had circulated about the Derby winner's well-being since Friday night and on Saturday morning leading bookmakers began to remove him from their betting on the end-of-season Longchamp showpiece. So You Think, Workforce, Nathaniel and Sarafina were among horses at the head of the market for the Arc as layers removed Pour Moi from their lists, but no clear favourite has yet emerged. Another that we will never know how good he really was
Gutted.Thought he was an immense talent, and i feel he was nailed on for this years Arc. Here's to a happy retirement and a successful career at stud.
Not good news, what was looking like a hot renewal of the Arc, isn't looking so strong now, first Rewilding and now this fella. You never know how good a Derby winner is until they take on the older horse's, so I'm sure there are going to be plenty of debates, as to how good he was. We've seen very impressive Derby winners, flop in the Arc. The likes of Motivator and Authorised for example. Then other less impressive winners, like Sea The Stars and Lammtarra have gone onto win the Arc. I'd say Pour Moi wasn't the most impressive of Derby winners, and I personally wouldn't have had him down as a worthy favourite for the Arc, though Adre Fabre's record in the race was probably part of the reason. I wouldn't have backed him in the Arc, as I've always fancied Nathaniel as the Arc winner, ever since I seen him hose up in the King Edward. I don't quite understand why Sarafina is now favourite, she isn't any better than Midday if you ask me
Sea the Stars a 'less impressive' Derby winner? Ha! You don't have to rout a field to be impressive you know. Curses though, always a shame when that happens to a Classic winner or one like Harbinger last year.
Sarafina is joint favourite because A) she is a filly with an exceptional turn of foot and B)was very unlucky in the race last year.
Considering the 3yo fillies and colts look really strong this year, I find it puzzling that the first 3 in the betting for the Arc are all older horses. I think Meandre and Galikova could be the value at 10/1 and 12/1. I rarely look beyond 3yo's for the Arc, and this year they're a very strong bunch.
Kiyonemakibi....I'm not saying Sea The Stars was an unimpressive Derby winner, I'm just saying he didn't win it anywhere near as impressive as Authorised or Motivator, yet I think we all know he was a far better horse than either of those. I'm just making a point that we shouldn't always draw conclusions from how impressively a horse wins the Derby. Lammtarra was another fantastic horse, who narrowly got up on the line in the Derby, much like Pour Moi. Dylan Thomas got beat by a couple of rags in the Derby, yet he proved far superior to Sir Percy after that. DB.....Sarafina is no way a worthy favourite, what has she done to warrant favouritism? She even lost to Midday in the Prix Vermille. She is a decent filly, who did look a little unlucky in a poor renewal last season, but she is facing a far tougher challenge this season
Listen mate i dont set the odds for the races,so please chill yerself.But so far she looks to be a better horse this season. I cant believe that you can still get 20-1 about Baraan(Beat Pour Moi this season and finished like a express train in his last race from a mile back)
A massive shame. He wasn't one who really caught my imagination it must be said but i am still sorry that he is unable to show his true worth. Fabre clearly thinks he is very good indeed but i think a question mark must hang over him, and through no fault of his own. The Derby form isn't the strongest and whilst his victory was impressive of sorts, his rating marked it out as a poor race. Whether that fails to do him justice is open to question. What can be said is that So You Think looks more likely to take his chance in the Arc now. With Coolmore losing their primary hope he is their only real contender remaining. Still promises to be an excellent race but it cannot be denied that the loss of Rewilding and Pour Moi has detracted from the race.
They all finished in a heap which is well known as being a sign of a poor race. I'm also not convinced by many of the protanganists. 1st Pour Moi - We will never know. 2nd Treasure Beach - Won the Irish Derby, then well beaten in France and packed to the US. I think he'd be running in the tope European races if Coolmore truly thought he was a top quality animal. Still only rated 120. 3rd Carlton House - Only 4th in the Irish Derby. 4th Memphis Tennessee - 3rd in the Irish Derby. 5th Native Khan - 7th in the Irish Derby. 6th Recital - Not seen since. And so on. I see no reason how anybody could possibly argue that the Derby form is strong. They all finished in a heap in the race itself, and then most of them finished in a heap once more in the Irish version. The only horse who has tested the form is Treasure Beach. He has done ok without doing anything exceptional. He is still rated the same as he was after the Derby, and has hardly proven himself a top quality animal thus far. He is 20/1 in the betting for the Arc which tells its own story. I would suggest the form is at best 'untested'. I would say not very strong.
I believe he was an exceptional winner of a very average race. You only had to look at how much Pour Moi hated Epsom to know that to still win from last to first took incredible ability. I reckon he would have hosed up in the ARC.
According to Liz Price on ATR a few weeks ago, Baraan has met with a setback of some sort. I was very sorely tempted to back him considering the disparity in prices between Baraan and Pour Moi but this info by Liz Price seems to confirm why he is so easy to back. The fact that Baraan missed the Grand Prix de Paris (which would've been an obvious target after his run in the Prix Du Jockey Club) probably means that it's best to wait until we hear an update as to his wellbeing.
Zen....I hardly see how churning out finishing positions in the Irish Derby, proves anything. The Irish Derby was basically a repeat of the Epsom one, with no Pour Moi, so they were running against the same horse's. So it was impossible for them to enhance the form of the Derby in Ireland. So TB flopped in France, yet Seville, was 2nd, how far was he beaten at Epsom? Don't forget Pisco Sour either, he is 2 from 2 in Group races since the Derby. So what if they finished in a heap, was Lammtarra a poor Derby winner? TB has gone to America because Coolmoore have so many middle distance horse's for the big races. Cape Blanco runs in the states now, is he a bad horse? Look what he did to Twice Over and RVW last year. They send these horse's to America, because of the high prize money, and so they will apeal to American breeders once they retire. It's all about money. If you truly believe this years Derby was poor, then give me an example of a strong Derby?
Completely agree with Dancing Brave, Pour Moi was nailed on for the Arc this year just like Manduro was before he got injured in his prep race. What a horse he was, never really gets mentioned in discussions of recent racing greats. The 5yo Manduro would be keeping Goldikova out of my top 5 horses I have seen since ive been into racing along with Sea The Stars, Zarkava, Frankel and New Approach. He had the class to win Group 1s from 1m to 1m4 and he made Dylan Thomas look second rate, some engine. Andre Fabre also trained Manduro and has the best ever record in the Arc I believe. When he says that Pour Moi had more speed than Peintre Celebre and was one of the best he has ever had, its safe to say that barring bad luck in running, Pour Moi would have won the Arc this year. Sarafina is a class filly and she would have went very close to winning the Arc last year but for losing all chance in running. The fact she managed to finish 3rd after what happened was unbelievable and with her apparent improvement, she has every right to be there with the favourites in this race now. Nathanial dosent have the gears to win an Arc in my opinion and I have a line through him.
"He is still rated the same as he was after the Derby, and has hardly proven himself a top quality animal thus far." Quite the most ridiculous comment posted for quite some time.
Initially I thought that Pour Moi was a good winner of a poor Derby but I think the Derby form has stood up pretty well this year. If you include Nathaniel on a line of Chester form through Treasure Beach (who hasn't done much wrong, apart from a poor tactical ride in the Grand Prix de Paris), and what Pisco Sour and Masked Marvel have done since, it wasn't a bad race at all. If you provide for the fact that Pour Moi would have won it a lot easier if he hadn't come from so far behind and also what Andre Fabre has said about Pour Moi having more speed than Peintre Celebre, the Arc will be all the poorer for his absence. I don't think you can ever judge how good a Derby is until at least a few months after the race itself. Sometimes you can get "brilliant" winners on the day who subsequently only end up beating donkeys, and you can get hard-fought winners who end up beating a very decent field of colts.
Eddie.....So Nathaniel doesn't have the speed for the Arc, yet he did Workforce for speed off a slow pace in the KG. I think you will be suprised by just how good Nathaniel is. People seem to give this horse no respect, if you ask me he is the horse to beat, and had he ran in the Derby i believe he would have beaten Pour Moi. Pour Moi's form is not that of a world beater at Longchamp. Got home by a neck in a maiden, and then got beaten 3 lengths by Baraan, I hardly see how he was a certainty for the Arc, a over hyped favourite living off his trainers reputation if you ask me. Manduro was a class act, he would have had a chance in the Arc, though Dylan Thomas was a fad better horse once upped to 12f, there meeting at Ascot was over 10. Whilst you also have to remember Dylan Thomas never lost a race with Fallon in the saddle, at Ascot Fallon was banned from british racing
I said he dosent have the gears, there is a difference. The King George was a throw out race, a farce if you will, the form isnt worth the paper its written on. Nathanial was given the best ride, was in the right place at the right time and won by default. He is good horse, he showed that at Ascot, but my opinion is that he dosent have the required gears to win an Arc in a true race. Well soon find out if im right. Pour Moi obviously took a bit of time to get the hang of things, he still hadn't put it all together yet and I believe by the time the Arc came round, he would be an absoulte beast. Look at Sea The Stars when he won the Guineas and look at the difference in him physically when he won the Arc, he was an absolute bull, powerhouse in the Arc. Im not saying Pour Moi was as good a horse as Sea The Stars and he might not have grown as much but he could only have improved from the Derby and he had already shown he possessed an engine of the highest calibre. Dylan Thomas was at his best over 1m4 but Manduro practically beat him on the bridle at Ascot, there was nothing Fallon could have done if he was riding. Manduro was a classier horse and he stayed 1m4 very well so no reason to believe that Dylan Thomas would have troubled him in the Arc.
Sorry i do apologise. He just got up to beat Seville in the Irish Derby, the same Seville who was comfortably beaten by Sea Moon in the Great Voltigeur. He was then 4th in the Grand Prix De Paris beaten by that same rival. Then packed off to America where he won by a neck from a decent enough type of the Aga Khan's. He's decent, no doubt about it, but a top quality animal? Not in my book.
