Off Topic Politics Thread

[Osvaldorama]

We’re in very, very odd times right now, and we’re at the toddler stage still of understanding the impacts of the digital age on thought, discussion, opinions, offence etc. We’re also at this weird point where we’re overwhelmed by media and opinions (Spotify is media, YouTube and Russell Brand are media). We’re actually all media right now, and we’re our own publishers - be it here, Twitter, Facebook etc - but not subjected to the same stringent rules that traditional publishing outlets are subject to.

Frankly it’s a clusterfuck, but we have to believe that we’ll ultimately muddle through it.

I agree. But I don’t think government taking away rights and freezing peoples bank accounts in a western country is right. For whatever reason.

 

[StJabbo1]

I agree. But I don’t think government taking away rights and freezing peoples bank accounts in a western country is right. For whatever reason.

Well what's your solution to clear Ottawa and the border crossings. None of the demands should be met.

 

[Gregm1988]

Well what's your solution to clear Ottawa and the border crossings. None of the demands should be met.

What actually are their demands ? If it is just “cross the border without a vaccine” then demanding that not be met seems a little much

Obviously all that weird stuff about meeting with officials etc shouldn’t be met

 

[StJabbo1]

What actually are their demands ? If it is just “cross the border without a vaccine” then demanding that not be met seems a little much

Obviously all that weird stuff about meeting with officials etc shouldn’t be met

So mob rule wins? Precipitating what in terms of the next protest? In all likelihood, as restrictions are relaxed this one can be sooner rather than later. Vaccine passports are going to be a fact of life for some time to come given the disparity of rollout worldwide. We're only one mutation away from the next wave let's hope it doesn't happen.

 

[Gregm1988]

So mob rule wins? Precipitating what in terms of the next protest? In all likelihood, as restrictions are relaxed this one can be sooner rather than later. Vaccine passports are going to be a fact of life for some time to come given the disparity of rollout worldwide. We're only one mutation away from the next wave let's hope it doesn't happen.

You didn’t answer the question.

Besides - it has been suggested above that Ottawa still needs clearing. Offering them nothing is not usually an effective negotiating position. And I assume some negotiation is still considered necessary if things still need clearing. I thought it was mostly resolved now but I haven’t been following super closely

 

[StJabbo1]

You didn’t answer the question.

Besides - it has been suggested above that Ottawa still needs clearing. Offering them nothing is not usually an effective negotiating position. And I assume some negotiation is still considered necessary if things still need clearing. I thought it was mostly resolved now but I haven’t been following super closely

Demands and background are not difficult to find. Other protests such as the one here in The Hague came and went without much fuss.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/09/problem-with-ottawas-protesters-00007272
and
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/07/ottawa-protests-explainer-vaccine-mandates-whats-next

 

[Schad]

You didn’t answer the question.

Besides - it has been suggested above that Ottawa still needs clearing. Offering them nothing is not usually an effective negotiating position. And I assume some negotiation is still considered necessary if things still need clearing. I thought it was mostly resolved now but I haven’t been following super closely

Their negotiating position was that they wanted the government deposed and replaced by a junta consisting of themselves, the Governor General, and the Senate. That's really difficult to negotiate with.

 

[StJabbo1]

Question time tonight, Andy Burnham for PM?

 

[Gregm1988]

Their negotiating position was that they wanted the government deposed and replaced by a junta consisting of themselves, the Governor General, and the Senate. That's really difficult to negotiate with.

Was that really their original position from the very beginning? Would they really not have left if they had been told that they didn’t need to follow the mandate?

 

[StJabbo1]

Was that really their original position from the very beginning? Would they really not have left if they had been told that they didn’t need to follow the mandate?

Yes and No so far as I can see, Schad is better placed to answer.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Was that really their original position from the very beginning? Would they really not have left if they had been told that they didn’t need to follow the mandate?

Yes. The whole time everyone has just been demanding freedom from vaccine passports & mandates. They weren’t even anti-vaccine.

A couple of false flag feds turned up with one Nazi flag, and the media put out some hit pieces to try and smear the truckers protest as right wing extremist. But I know people there, and it isn’t. It’s been totally peaceful.

In Canada they have gone full crazy totalitarian and people will lose their jobs without the vaccine or covid passports.

Now they are freezing bank accounts, and assets etc. It’s mad

You know it’s bad when the Canadian civil liberties association is trying to sue the government

 

[Gregm1988]

Yes. The whole time everyone has just been demanding freedom from vaccine passports & mandates. They weren’t even anti-vaccine.

A couple of false flag feds turned up with one Nazi flag, and the media put out some hit pieces to try and smear the truckers protest as right wing extremist. But I know people there, and it isn’t. It’s been totally peaceful.

In Canada they have gone full crazy totalitarian and people will lose their jobs without them.

Now they are freezing bank accounts, and the Ottawa police department just tweeted about stealing people’s pets etc. It’s mad.

I was asking was the trucker’s original first position - “depose the government”. And not “drop the vaccine mandates”

 

[Osvaldorama]

I was asking was the trucker’s original first position - “depose the government”. And not “drop the vaccine mandates”

No. It was about dropping the mandates. 100%.

Anyone that says otherwise is lying.

It is EXTREMELY worrying that governments are now censoring people’s bank accounts and freezing fundraisers.

 

[Gregm1988]

Yes. The whole time everyone has just been demanding freedom from vaccine passports & mandates. They weren’t even anti-vaccine.

A couple of false flag feds turned up with one Nazi flag, and the media put out some hit pieces to try and smear the truckers protest as right wing extremist. But I know people there, and it isn’t. It’s been totally peaceful.

In Canada they have gone full crazy totalitarian and people will lose their jobs without the vaccine or covid passports.

Now they are freezing bank accounts, and the Ottawa police department just tweeted about stealing people’s pets etc. It’s mad.

You know it’s bad when the Canadian civil liberties association is trying to sue the government

How do you know they were false flag people? That sounds like something people involved in the 6th tried to claim

Also you have really misrepresented the pet thing. Placing pets that have been taken along to the convoy in protective care if the protestors are arrested and can’t care for them is really not the same as “stealing” them. Be better man

There are kernels of validity in some of what you say but then you go and say something like that. That is the sort of misreporting you would slam the “mainstream media” for

 

[Schad]

Was that really their original position from the very beginning? Would they really not have left if they had been told that they didn’t need to follow the mandate?

This has never really been about the mandate. This same group of people organized a convoy back in 2019, as well, before the pandemic. That one was about oil and gas pipelines:

https://globalnews.ca/news/4972392/truck-protest-ottawa-oil-policies/

Note:

Scores of people gathered in knee-deep snow on the Parliament Hill lawn in advance of morning speeches, amid concerns the convoy has become a magnet for extremist, anti-immigrant elements.

“This convoy is a Yellow Vests Canada convoy and any well-meaning pro-pipeline individuals involved are in fact legitimizing and breathing oxygen into the broader Yellow Vests Canada movement, which spreads hate, conspiracy theories, and death threats targeting Muslims, politicians, and other Canadians,” he said.

Yellow Vests begat this movement; it's literally the same organizers, with the same white nationalist groups showing up in support. The leadership still has all the same long history of espousing white supremacist and anti-Semitic nonsense they did in 2019, they still have the same ties to skinhead groups they had the first time. They just latched on to something with a little more salience outside Alberta this time.

 

[Osvaldorama]

How do you know they were false flag people? That sounds like something people involved in the 6th tried to claim

Also you have really misrepresented the pet thing. Placing pets that have been taken along to the convoy in protective care if the protestors are arrested and can’t care for them is really not the same as “stealing” them. Be better man

There was a reward out by the truckers/protestors for anyone who could identify the guy with the flag.

Yeah I exaggerated the pet thing, but they have said the pets will be “relinquished” which many are taking to mean exterminated.

Regardless, there are civil rights groups in Canada speaking up against Trudeau now so we will see what unfolds. I presume the protests will end shortly, but it is certainly a glimpse into government overreach.

 

[Gregm1988]

This has never really been about the mandate. This same group of people organized a convoy back in 2019, as well, before the pandemic. That one was about oil and gas pipelines:

https://globalnews.ca/news/4972392/truck-protest-ottawa-oil-policies/

Note:

The tricky part is that we will never know because they won’t sit down with them to even see. To even call their bluff on the mandate

i can understand why they won’t of course. But it still means we will never truly know

i suspect if the bluff was called they would say something like “it’s too late for that now”. But again, we won’t really ever know

 

[Gregm1988]

There was a reward out by the truckers/protestors for anyone who could identify the guy with the flag.

Yeah I exaggerated the pet thing, but they have said the pets will be “relinquished” which many are taking to mean exterminated.

Regardless, there are civil rights groups in Canada speaking up against Trudeau now so we will see what unfolds. I presume the protests will end shortly, but it is certainly a glimpse into government overreach.

That is not what “relinquish” means. Or even close. Seems a bit of a leap. The article I read said “held for eight days”. Now if the person stays arrested for much longer then…I guess …

 

[Schad]

The tricky part is that we will never know because they won’t sit down with them to even see. To even call their bluff on the mandate

i can understand why they won’t of course. But it still means we will never truly know

i suspect if the bluff was called they would say something like “it’s too late for that now”. But again, we won’t really ever know

Suggesting that you can change public health policy by getting a few thousand people to be really annoying for a couple weeks is something of a terrible precedent, even if you could set aside their past.

 

[Osvaldorama]

The tricky part is that we will never know because they won’t sit down with them to even see. To even call their bluff on the mandate

i can understand why they won’t of course. But it still means we will never truly know

i suspect if the bluff was called they would say something like “it’s too late for that now”. But again, we won’t really ever know

True.

The biggest surprise for me is that governments are so willing to censor money and bank accounts.

I feel like this is a worrying development. Today it’s the truckers protests being frozen, but with this kind of power it could be you, or I or anyone.

Combine this with CBDC digital currencies that they want to bring in, which would give governments complete control of our accounts and you have a recipe for the sort of control Hitler/Stalin/Mao etc. could only dream of in the wrong hands.

It seemed far fetched and not something to even consider before, but the sort of power they are exercising seemingly without legal boundaries is worrying regardless of your views on this individual protest.