Off Topic Politics Thread

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ChilcoSaint said:
The other aspect of this which has escaped attention in our media is that while British subjects living in Ukraine are being urged to come home, the invitation does not extend to their non-British family members, for whom no entry visas have been forthcoming.
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Unfortunately its the sort of thing we should expect given our government's track record
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
It’s interesting how Putin’s posturing is portrayed in the West, compared to how at least some in Ukraine are seeing it. One of James O’Brien’s callers this morning was a man whose Ukrainian girlfriend is actually flying home to see her mother this week, something O’Brien was understandably shocked on hearing. The man explained thatwith th Ukrainians have been living is sort of bullshit from Russia pretty much since the breakup of the Soviet Union and that the current situation doesn’t really represent a significant escalation of the continual undercurrent of pressure. Putin is more likely to actually invade if he has an excuse, such as a perceived expansionary move by NATO.

I have no idea if that is anything like the true picture, but it was certainly a fascinating alternative to the picture being painted by our media.
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Just around the corner from where live is a large (Ex-Soviet) community, lots of Ukrainians some of whom I know quite well. Some ex military,
one is, or was a Colonel! "Hind" Helicopter gunship pilot in the Afghan war! ( I must add he is MUCH older than me) but, what I,m picking-up is that this has more to do with NATO expansion as Russian aggression.
 
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Those two things are pretty firmly intertwined though. The biggest issue with NATO expansion, for Russia, is that it precludes their ability to either politically dominate or annex directly territory that they consider strategically or politically important. The incorporation of the Baltics (and Estonia in particular) into NATO still sticks in Russia's craw for that reason.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
It’s interesting how Putin’s posturing is portrayed in the West, compared to how at least some in Ukraine are seeing it. One of James O’Brien’s callers this morning was a man whose Ukrainian girlfriend is actually flying home to see her mother this week, something O’Brien was understandably shocked on hearing. The man explained that Ukrainians have been living with this sort of bullshit from Russia pretty much since the breakup of the Soviet Union and that the current situation doesn’t really represent a significant escalation of the continual undercurrent of pressure. Putin is more likely to actually invade if he has an excuse, such as a perceived expansionary move by NATO.

I have no idea if that is anything like the true picture, but it was certainly a fascinating alternative to the picture being painted by our media.
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I don't know, Chilcs. Media I've been reading has been saying pretty much the same thing, to balance out the "it's going to be war" rhetoric, which seems to be mainly coming from the politicians (and reported by the media). What the opinion pieces are largely saying is more in line with the Ukrainian perspective, and very clear that for Putin it could be a disastrous move. William Hague's pieces in The Times have been very interesting on it all.
 
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Gregm1988 said:
What is the general gist of why it would be disastrous for Putin?
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It'll likely be a long, drawn out campaign, akin to when Russia went into Afghanistan. The Ukranians are there and willing to fight, and would engage in guerrilla tactics, which leads to a high body count. Russia is a conscription army, and when things turn ugly and long-term, a conscripted army is absolutely what you don't want to have. Body bags coming back to Russia and angry Russian mums, basically.

It's what happened in Afghanistan, and could well happen here if he goes in. Not saying it would, but it could. And that would spell the end for Putin. He's not daft, either, and though he has a planetary sized ego, he'll realise this.
 
Le Tissier's Laces said:
It'll likely be a long, drawn out campaign, akin to when Russia went into Afghanistan. The Ukranians are there and willing to fight, and would engage in guerrilla tactics, which leads to a high body count. Russia is a conscription army, and when things turn ugly and long-term, a conscripted army is absolutely what you don't want to have. Body bags coming back to Russia and angry Russian mums, basically.

It's what happened in Afghanistan, and could well happen here if he goes in. Not saying it would, but it could. And that would spell the end for Putin. He's not daft, either, and though he has a planetary sized ego, he'll realise this.
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Is the terrain there as inhospitable as in Afghanistan? I assume not ?
 
StJabbo1 said:
I didn't see that and, dependant on what is meant by republican, certainly not Trumpian more:
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I’m trying to work out why republicans have claimed that. I think they are applying it to any kind of free speech / speaking out against vaccines type thing
 
Gregm1988 said:
I’m trying to work out why republicans have claimed that. I think they are applying it to any kind of free speech / speaking out against vaccines type thing
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Odd indeed if it's the GOP.

"Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) was a prominent Lutheran pastor in Germany. He emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last seven years of Nazi rule in concentration camps. He is perhaps best remembered for his postwar words, “First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out…”

"The quotation and its variants express Niemöller’s belief that Germans had been complicit through their silence in the Nazi imprisonment, persecution, and murder of millions of people. He felt this to be especially true of the leaders of the Protestant churches."

Coming from:-
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/cont...s variants,leaders of the Protestant churches.
 
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