That prime minister's questions was magnificent
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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Keir Starmer is shaping up nicely!
Spaffer missed his baying cronies to shout Kier down. I like this new PMQT.
The playground bully cornered.
That's what you get when you have a top rate QC in charge rather than a student protestor.
I was very fond of Jezza, but Starmer’s forensic style promises to be extremely effective at getting inside BoJo’s bluster. It’s going to be a very long 5 years for the Tories, I can’t see them putting up with Johnson for that long.
I do wonder if Pfeffel has the necessary mental strength to go the distance. He strikes me as a bit of a loose cannon. Chickens are coming home to roost on the economy. Redwood clearly breaking ranks last night wanting to sacrifice lives in exchange for cash.
He was a part time Mayor of London, and could barely be relied on to turn up at City Hall to face questions. He won’t be able to get away with that as PM.
As editor of the Spectator, he was also notorious for almost never being at his desk. His entire career has been based on bluff and bluster; having a compliant media has helped, of course. If they turn on him, he’s ****ed, and will soon be found out.
I missed PMQs yesterday and didn't watch the news all day. I have to be honest and say that I think sometimes Corbyn seemed bullied by Johnson in PMQs. Boris's first appearance in parliament was particularly unpleasant and personal. I agree that Starmer's training will ultimately grind Johnson down as the latter does not like detail. However, as I said yesterday, when things turn bad, the Tories have a habit of turning against their leaders and I would suggest that the fall out from this pandemic will be Boris' undoing irrespective of effective Starmer is.
I think it is also worthwhile pointing out that Starmer's position on many issues may be at odds with a lot of the party membership. Loads of people like myself joined the Labour Party because of the progressive, Socialist ideals held by the likes of Corbyn, Abbott, Burgon and McDonnell. I was disappointed that party members were not braver and did not vote Rebecca Long-Bailey in as leader so that the vision of the likes of Corbyn could be fulfilled. Corbyn has barely been out of his office two months and his ideas regarding increased expenditure and the importance of the NHS are now being realised. Let's not call him a "student protestor" and lets seem him for what he really is which is a person who had the vision to see how things will shape up in 21st century. I feel that Corbyn might have narrowly conceded power to Theresa May through the disgraceful undermining of some of his colleagues yet I feel that some of his ideas will shape this century. Starmer should not be allowed to backtrack from what has been achieved by the party in the last five years.
Watching this present Government is a bit like watching the Apprentice. You have someone full of swagger and conceited as hell takes the lead and everybody ****s up what they are meant to do because they were all incompetent and then they start stabbing each other in the back.
Ian, Dont get me wrong, I certainly don't disagree with your desire of final destination, just the route. Corbyn was just too much of a blunt instrument and very easily exposed by the Tory machine. Where I do diverge is Becky. She is total anathema to those middle ground people, the ten per cent of the electorate who we need to get back to win in 2024. Something that incidentally I think is now well within our grasp, especially with a potentially very bad Brexit added to the present woes.
Worth watching on iPlayer, here’s the link:
Prime Minister's Questions, 06/05/2020: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000j0md via @bbciplayer
Agree with this really, I have a good deal of respect for Corbyn and I really don’t buy that he would have been a disaster as PM, however I felt he was politically naive at times and this was exploited ruthlessly.
To be able to bring change you need to be able to win over swing voters and Starmer is far more likely to do that, I’m not sure Long-Bailey could have swung over anyone who wasn’t already behind Corbyn as she just offered more of the same.
Regardless, unless Labour and the Lib Dem’s agree to stand down candidates for each other next time around, I don’t see how the Conservatives can be beaten due to First Past the Post, even if Starmer rapidly increases Labours popularity and vote share.
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As a serious point, Labour simply have to take back ownership of the higher moral ground when it comes to the NHS. The Tories’ laughable claims to be the “party of the NHS” need to be refuted, and quickly. The upcoming USA:UK trade deal talks, with our NHS as a bargaining chip, will of course be key to all this. Labour also need to point out that despite the excellent efforts of Colonel Tom Moore and countless others to raise funds, the NHS is not, and never has been, a charity, but needs to be restored as a public service fully funded from taxation.
With Starmer and his excellent front bench health team led by Jonathan Ashworth and the brilliant A&E doctor Rosena Allin-Khan, Labour have a great chance to bring back a huge part of the middle ground lost during the Brexit debacle. The actuality of Brexit itself will win back a lot more, especially if Labour do adopt a Rejoin position in the next 5 years.
With Starmer and his excellent front bench health team led by Jonathan Ashworth and the brilliant A&E doctor Rosena Allin-Khan, Labour have a great chance to bring back a huge part of the middle ground lost during the Brexit debacle. The actuality of Brexit itself will win back a lot more, especially if Labour do adopt a Rejoin position in the next 5 years.
FPTP needs to be changed but little chance of that,both Cons and Lab would lose seats, status quo unless there's another chance for a PR referendum unlikely to say the least. The 2011 referendum was for an alternative vote methord not PR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum
Some interesting reading here but academic for the foreseeable future in my view.
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/voting-systems/types-of-voting-system/
The boundary review may well be enacted see:-
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/b...uency-uk-electoral-commission-parties-1354738.
Enough bolictics off later for a bike ride plenty of routes to choose from all with a cold beer at the end ,at home of course. Stay safe and sane.
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My take on where we are at politically is that we will look back on this period in our country as an utter disaster, and a huge opportunity missed in not having a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn. We could have been a country that developed a socialist based society with an economy based on the welfare and well being of the population rather than an economy based on capitalist greed. I do not believe Jeremy Corbyn would have been the disaster so many believed and I would much rather live in a society where the infirm and elderly were valued as highly as anyone else. The one thing I will always know is that Jeremy Corbyn is a man of the people and a man who has a heart for others. To me, that is an essential part of the make up of any leader, and is perhaps the thing I love about the man so much.
We have instead a government led by a buffoon, staffed by idiots and directed by a nasty backroom group of right wing maniacs who will stop at nothing to keep the poor impoverished and the meat grinder wheels of big business churning. The poor, the elderly, the infirm and the low paid have no chance with this government and very soon it will be the turn of the middle class to feel the full force of the savage cuts in public services and tax hikes that are coming our way. There will be every excuse under the sun used to explain why we are abandoning environmental policies, continual privatising of our healthcare and why low paid workers can not be given more money. We are going to see a massive decline in workers rights and working conditions, and the gig economy will continue widening with less full time jobs available that provide a decent liveable wage.
It could all have been so different at a time when we desperately need a new kind of politics. The best we can hope for now is a Starmer led Labour government that will be something of a mirror of the Blair years, so corporate capitalism with a softer smile. That might well suit many, but it will be nothing compared to what we could have had, and the poor will still never get out of the poverty trap. I feel very concerned about the years ahead in this country and I do wonder where it will all end up. I'm not as upbeat about the ability of the new face of Labour to be the party of the people. We had that and turned our backs on it.
George Orwell (Animal Farm) wrote.....
“Man is the only creature that consumes without producing. He does not give milk, he does not lay eggs, he is too weak to pull the plough, he cannot run fast enough to catch rabbits. Yet he is lord of all the animals. He sets them to work, he gives back to them the bare minimum that will prevent them from starving, and the rest he keeps for himself.”
2020 version.....
“A Capitalist is the only creature that consumes without producing. He does not give milk, he does not lay eggs, he is too weak to pull the plough, he cannot run fast enough to catch rabbits. Yet he is lord of all the people. He sets them to work, he gives back to them the bare minimum that will prevent them from starving, and the rest he keeps for himself.”
We have instead a government led by a buffoon, staffed by idiots and directed by a nasty backroom group of right wing maniacs who will stop at nothing to keep the poor impoverished and the meat grinder wheels of big business churning. The poor, the elderly, the infirm and the low paid have no chance with this government and very soon it will be the turn of the middle class to feel the full force of the savage cuts in public services and tax hikes that are coming our way. There will be every excuse under the sun used to explain why we are abandoning environmental policies, continual privatising of our healthcare and why low paid workers can not be given more money. We are going to see a massive decline in workers rights and working conditions, and the gig economy will continue widening with less full time jobs available that provide a decent liveable wage.
It could all have been so different at a time when we desperately need a new kind of politics. The best we can hope for now is a Starmer led Labour government that will be something of a mirror of the Blair years, so corporate capitalism with a softer smile. That might well suit many, but it will be nothing compared to what we could have had, and the poor will still never get out of the poverty trap. I feel very concerned about the years ahead in this country and I do wonder where it will all end up. I'm not as upbeat about the ability of the new face of Labour to be the party of the people. We had that and turned our backs on it.
George Orwell (Animal Farm) wrote.....
“Man is the only creature that consumes without producing. He does not give milk, he does not lay eggs, he is too weak to pull the plough, he cannot run fast enough to catch rabbits. Yet he is lord of all the animals. He sets them to work, he gives back to them the bare minimum that will prevent them from starving, and the rest he keeps for himself.”
2020 version.....
“A Capitalist is the only creature that consumes without producing. He does not give milk, he does not lay eggs, he is too weak to pull the plough, he cannot run fast enough to catch rabbits. Yet he is lord of all the people. He sets them to work, he gives back to them the bare minimum that will prevent them from starving, and the rest he keeps for himself.”
This is an interesting read, laying out the timeline of Tory ineptitude, when dealing with the pandemic.
https://appeasement.org/
https://appeasement.org/
That, in retrospect, is an absolutely staggering level of callous indifference as well as ineptitude from this government. Hopefully when the independent public inquiry happens even Johnson will be unable to squirm and bluster his way out of that completely damning evidence.