Off Topic Politics Thread

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Farked19 said:
More immediately the problem is the Labour leadership. Moves are already afoot by Ian Lavery's stalking horse candidacy to install RLB " Becky from accounts" as the Corbyn continuity leader. Was it Einstein's definition of insanity that involved carrying out exactly the same experiment but expecting a different result ? Well maybe it will bring a different result , losing by only 70, or maybe 90.

Let's face it the only way that Labour are going to get into power in the next five years is if Brexit goes spectacularly and horribly wrong casting us into a 1930's style depression. I suppose it might work .
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You keep saying this, but it’s nonsense. The next leader of the Labour Party will be decided by a ballot of the membership; to get on the ballot paper in the first place requires the backing of 10% of the PLP and 5% of constituency parties.

This is a wholly democratic process, no one is going to be “installed”.

I hope Keir Starmer gets the gig, then we’d have a realistic chance of getting the Tories out 5 years hence. But I’ll back whoever the elected leader is, because I believe principles should always come before personalities.
 
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I believe Kier Starmer would be the ideal choice but sadly now that people are into the cult of personality I wonder if he is too staid. Let's be honest Johnson was successful through the shear force of his personality if the Tories had been led by anyone else they would in all probability have lost.

Sadly people vote in an election in the same way they do for a reality TV show. It is not depth or substance but personality.
 
Archers Road said:
You keep saying this, but it’s nonsense. The next leader of the Labour Party will be decided by a ballot of the membership; to get on the ballot paper in the first place requires the backing of 10% of the PLP and 5% of constituency parties.

This is a wholly democratic process, no one is going to be “installed”.

I hope Keir Starmer gets the gig, then we’d have a realistic chance of getting the Tories out 5 years hence. But I’ll back whoever the elected leader is, because I believe principles should always come before personalities.
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Apart from Momentum have usurped all the significant levers of power within the party. I think what we are seeing now is a terminal decline ably assisted by folk like Len McCluskey and Jennie Formby, the very people who formulated the policies that brought about this latest electoral debacle.
 
Farked19 said:
Apart from Momentum have usurped all the significant levers of power within the party. I think what we are seeing now is a terminal decline ably assisted by folk like Len McCluskey and Jennie Formby, the very people who formulated the policies that brought about this latest electoral debacle.
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Which significant levers of power has Momentum seized?

As for Len McCluskey - who I agree is a real dinosaur - Ed Miliband’s reforms have greatly reduced the leverage of the Union block vote.

The current Labour Party May be to the left of where you would like it to be, but that’s because the grass roots membership, who have always been to the left of the PLP, now have greater influence than before.
 
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I'm not really bothered how far left it is. The SNP position suits me just fine. It's only electability that concerns me and the ability to portray the party as extremist. Which is exactly what I think will happen if RBL is leader. The grass roots membership sadly doesn't reflect the position of the electorate, I only wish it did.
 
St Godders said:
I believe Kier Starmer would be the ideal choice but sadly now that people are into the cult of personality I wonder if he is too staid. Let's be honest Johnson was successful through the shear force of his personality if the Tories had been led by anyone else they would in all probability have lost.
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If Corbyn and Labour had taken a Leave stance, they would have won all the traditionally left wing areas they lost. It's not like there weren't mistakes made. But basically Labour would have had to have the perfect candidate, and the perfect campaign, and everyone pulling on the same page. It never happens in politics. In the meantime, the Tories ran out a bunch of ****weed morons who easily won.

It's true that Johnson and co. ran a "low information" campaign full of sensationalism and lies. But they were able to do it because the very issues they ran on were emotional. People were already willing to throw logic and everything else out the window to stop immigration. Johnson didn't brainwash anyone. They were already brainwashed, and he simply stepped in to take advantage of it.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
Open letter to the BBC from John Sweeney about impartiality. Well worth a read:
https://johnsweeney.co.uk/?blog=blogs/archive/2019/11/24/john.sweeneys.letter.to.ofcom.aspx
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That is an astonishing read Chilco and many thanks for posting it. It bears out much of what has been said about the BBC recently and shows how easy it is to present a completely distorted picture by omitting to publish the truth.

As is often quoted .....

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
 
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St Badger said:
Take a look at the date on this item about burning coal and it’s affect on temperature.

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There was this post where a forum member said that "nobody knew", which I contradicted, and suggested that there were plenty of findings, most notably from a Victorian climate scientist, who first postulated the idea of warming up the Earth through burning fossil fuels, about 30 years earlier than that article. But all this was "centuries" away. Little did they know, but it was a few years more than a century away. But why should they have cared? There was plenty of time to sort the problem.

Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.
 
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I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
If Corbyn and Labour had taken a Leave stance, they would have won all the traditionally left wing areas they lost. It's not like there weren't mistakes made. But basically Labour would have had to have the perfect candidate, and the perfect campaign, and everyone pulling on the same page. It never happens in politics. In the meantime, the Tories ran out a bunch of ****weed morons who easily won.

It's true that Johnson and co. ran a "low information" campaign full of sensationalism and lies. But they were able to do it because the very issues they ran on were emotional. People were already willing to throw logic and everything else out the window to stop immigration. Johnson didn't brainwash anyone. They were already brainwashed, and he simply stepped in to take advantage of it.
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Never mind all that, can you tell us one thing please? Can Bernie Sanders win the Democratic nomination? The betting suggests it’s between him and Biden. If Biden wins, you’re ****ed imo, another terrible candidate to rival Hilary.

I need to know if I should cash out on my bet; I’m also concerned about the future of the Western world, of course. But could do with a boost to my Betfair account, before the creeks rise and we’re all either on fire, like Australia, or under 40 foot of water like Yorkshire was recently.
 
Archers Road said:
Never mind all that, can you tell us one thing please? Can Bernie Sanders win the Democratic nomination? The betting suggests it’s between him and Biden. If Biden wins, you’re ****ed imo, another terrible candidate to rival Hilary.

I need to know if I should cash out on my bet; I’m also concerned about the future of the Western world, of course. But could do with a boost to my Betfair account, before the creeks rise and we’re all either on fire, like Australia, or under 40 foot of water like Yorkshire was recently.
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Sanders can win, but I don't think he's terribly likely to win. He has a high floor/low ceiling: his supporters are very, very dedicated, but he has had difficulty attracting support beyond that base. Because the allotment of delegates from the primaries is highly proportional, it favours candidates who can build a fairly broad coalition...Biden has that (older + black voters), and it remains to be seen whether any others can make inroads.

I tend to think that Warren has a better chance of building a coalition than Sanders, who is rather polarizing, but time will tell.
 
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I can see exactly where this debate is going to lead Archers. I suspect that we have the same view of Sanders ( we like him) but diverge widely on his electoral prospects. As has been observed his base support, which I guess is in the same region as Corbyn's about 35%, will support him enthusiastically but getting the next 15% isn't gong to be easy. I suppose the difference between us is this: You have faith in the inherent goodness of people and think that they will vote for what is best for society as a whole. I am a cynic who thinks people are generally greedy and vote for those who promise them unicorns. I think the referendum offered a clue to the answer there.
 
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John of Gaunt's message for 2020

This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,

This precious stone set in the silver sea,

This gross tyrant’s plaything His serpent-vile

Tongue dupes his feeble subjects to agree

With banishing truth for ever from this state

Where he now reigns as emperor of lying,

While cringing cronies wheedle “A just Fate

Keeps the poor poor. Best leave them to their dying.”

No! It’s England that’s died. Irishman! Scot!

Help! You’ll shatter the tyrant’s chains for sure.

Even the Welsh may bin his fascist rot.

Help us, brave Celts, as you have done before.

March south. Set us self-shackled English free

From this truth-obfuscating tyranny.

© Leo Aylen 1.1.20
 
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I remember Teresa Gorman [remember her?] MP being interviewed on her version of Conservatism [no, not with a small 'c'] and the stand out message from her was that she preferred "to let my brother/sister go to the devil in his/her own way."

What she didn't comment on was whether she would expect people to stand by and watch her go to the devil in her own way. Personally, with her attitude, I hope she has. She kicked the bucket in 2015.

I'm hoping, with every digit crossed, that Buffoon Johnson turns out to be a "One Nation" Tory, and not the rabid example of right-wing politics that lurks within the Conservatives, and was exampled by Teresa Gorman.
 
Coal has been used for centuries it helped with the industrial revolution especially after the light bulb was invented in 1879. In 1882 the first coal fired power station was built. This led to more jobs and inventions. People were not concerned so much about the environment in those days as they were for surviving and keeping a job. They did not have the technology in those days to even think about air pollution. Scientist may well indeed have mentioned it but they lay person in the street would not have the knowledge we have today. Remember our first Nuclear power station didn't come into being until 1956. Most people of my generation that were around at the time thought these would be cleanest and best way to protect the environment. Little did we know how diesel cars and the like would add to the pollution. The political party that did the most to promote the Diesel engine was the labour party. When they promised to drop 10p a litre/gallon less than petrol. the diesel was became the most popular on the road for a short while. Also with the population explosion the number of cars on the road more than quadrupled a high number being diesels. Im glad that people at last have woken up to the problem which some of us have been going on about since the 60's....................Just hope our current political party play their part in getting it sorted.....
 
I see Trump is pushing for a fight with Iran then...............Killing one of their top generals just might start it off. I just hope we don't get involved ...but don't hold your breath.......
 
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