Off Topic Politics Thread

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Beefy said:
Latest Tory poll leads:

YouGov: 3pt
Survation: 6pt
Kantar: 10pt
FT poll of polls: 9pt
ICM: 12pt
ComRes: 12pt
Panelbase: 15pt ( New poll tomorrow and have stated it will be a Tory decrease)
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Unfortunately right-wing conservatism appeals too much to the dim of mind.
To put others needs before your own takes a level of emotional intelligence that many don't have, which explains brexit, trump and right-wing views in general. The tories rely so heavily on people only listening to soundbites and voting on personality instead of policies.
I have spoken to people who are voting Tory, because the labour manifesto is "fantasy", and the Tory austerity is supposedly more of an "adult" choice. I think this is complete BOLLOCKS - the 6th richest country in the world shouldn't need extreme austerity measures. It just needs to be more intelligent/caring in how it uses and distributes its wealth.

It is entirely possible to have an incredible NHS, in my opinion.
 
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Osvaldorama said:
Unfortunately right-wing conservatism appeals too much to the dim of mind.
To put others needs before your own takes a level of emotional intelligence that many don't have, which explains brexit, trump and right-wing views in general. The tories rely so heavily on people only listening to soundbites and voting on personality instead of policies.
I have spoken to people who are voting Tory, because the labour manifesto is "fantasy", and the Tory austerity is supposedly more of an "adult" choice. I think this is complete BOLLOCKS - the 6th richest country in the world shouldn't need extreme austerity measures. It just needs to be more intelligent/caring in how it uses and distributes its wealth.

It is entirely possible to have an incredible NHS, in my opinion.
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Apparently Survation were the closest poll in 2015...
 
Puck said:
Being anti-austerity and calling for the state to do more to look after the poor and disadvantaged are left wing views.
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I assume you haven't heard of One-Nation Conservatism than?

Are you aware that Harold Macmillan's government built more social housing than any other in British history? Compassion and concern for others are not actually wholly incompatible with conservative ideology. And I say that as a Labour Party member.
 
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TheSecondStain said:
There's nothing left wing, right wing, centralist or anything. Calling for the state [ie, US, the UK population, through taxes] to look after the poor and disadvantaged are humanitarian views.
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Archers Road said:
I assume you haven't heard of One-Nation Conservatism than?

Are you aware that Harold Macmillan's government built more social housing than any other in British history? Compassion and concern for others are not actually wholly incompatible with conservative ideology. And I say that as a Labour Party member.
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Firstly the left-right thing is a simple short-hand rather than a definitive scale of definitions. It's also a rather more complicated subject than I want to get into at this time of night but the short answer to both of these points is the same. Compassion and concern for others don't necessarily have to involve direct state intervention. Generally those on the left favour more immediate and direct state intervention (perhaps raising taxes on business and giving the money to people directly as welfare payments) and those on the right favour less direct intervention (perhaps cutting taxes on business in the belief that this will result in the creation of more jobs and higher wages, which will allow people to earn more money themselves).

Now, it's fairly clear that the mainstream of political views changes over time. What's considered dangerously extreme in one era is seen as perfectly normal in another. We have a clear example in front of us now. In the 90s abandoning Labour's commitment to nationalise industry was seen as a great triumph for Tony Blair, an action that made the Labour party electable again. Corbyn has now spoken of reinstating the original Clause 4. Times change. Similarly, the mainstream was somewhat different in Macmillan's day to now. Macmillan was part of a broadly social democratic post-war consensus (a consensus that ultimately left this country in a real mess) and also kept a variety of nationalised industries in government ownership but I don't think many would disagree that maintaining nationalised industries to that extent is a left wing idea.
 
Puck said:
Firstly the left-right thing is a simple short-hand rather than a definitive scale of definitions. It's also a rather more complicated subject than I want to get into at this time of night but the short answer to both of these points is the same. Compassion and concern for others don't necessarily have to involve direct state intervention. Generally those on the left favour more immediate and direct state intervention (perhaps raising taxes on business and giving the money to people directly as welfare payments) and those on the right favour less direct intervention (perhaps cutting taxes on business in the belief that this will result in the creation of more jobs and higher wages, which will allow people to earn more money themselves).

Now, it's fairly clear that the mainstream of political views changes over time. What's considered dangerously extreme in one era is seen as perfectly normal in another. We have a clear example in front of us now. In the 90s abandoning Labour's commitment to nationalise industry was seen as a great triumph for Tony Blair, an action that made the Labour party electable again. Corbyn has now spoken of reinstating the original Clause 4. Times change. Similarly, the mainstream was somewhat different in Macmillan's day to now. Macmillan was part of a broadly social democratic post-war consensus (a consensus that ultimately left this country in a real mess) and also kept a variety of nationalised industries in government ownership but I don't think many would disagree that maintaining nationalised industries to that extent is a left wing idea.
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Am I right in thinking that the UK shipbuilding industry was nationalised either under Wilson's Government or Edward Heath's? The "failure" of the nationalisted industries in the UK was due to many factors ranging from poor investment - the Attlee Government invested in steam engines while the rest of Europe started to electrify. Then we have the poor management structure that existed and still exists whereby training for such jobs was provided over a two or three week course. In Germany it was a four years degree course at the beginning of the 2th century. And of course there was the rentention of old work practices in shipbuiilding itself that made the industry expensive and uncompetitive alongside the modern Korean and Japanese shipyards.
 
Archers Road said:
I assume you haven't heard of One-Nation Conservatism than?

Are you aware that Harold Macmillan's government built more social housing than any other in British history? Compassion and concern for others are not actually wholly incompatible with conservative ideology. And I say that as a Labour Party member.
Click to expand...

That old liberal consensus at its best. That the Tories did not dismantle the Labour achievements of 1945-51 when they had 13 years to do so tells you everything about the consensus prior to the "Thatcher Revolution".
 
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Missing Lambo said:
That old liberal consensus at its best. That the Tories did not dismantle the Labour achievements of 1945-51 when they had 13 years to do so tells you everything about the consensus prior to the "Thatcher Revolution".
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Some would say the process of the "Thatcherism" started with Heath's Government but the attempts never really got off the ground.
 
As for good Governments, many underestimate the achievements of the Blair/Brown administrations where the emphasis was very much on improving the social well-being of the nation with improved conditions for new parents, the minimum wage, and improved nursery school facilities among a whole raft of other measures. The problem with such schemes as having free nursery places for all children under five, is having the skilled workforce in place. Back to old problem of "demand and supply."
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard

Nigel Farage is a “person of interest” in the US counter-intelligence investigation that is looking into possible collusion between the Kremlin and Donald Trump’s presidential campaign, the Guardian has been told.

Sources with knowledge of the investigation said the former Ukip leader had raised the interest of FBI investigators because of his relationships with individuals connected to both the Trump campaign and Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks founder whom Farage visited in March.
 
CON: 44% (-4)
LAB: 36% (+3)
LDEM: 7% (-)
UKIP: 5% (+1)
GRN: 3% (+1)

(via PanelbaseMD / 26 May - 01 Jun)

So:

YouGov: 3pt
Survation: 6pt
Kantar: 10pt
FT poll of polls: 9pt
ICM: 12pt
ComRes: 12pt
Panelbase: 8pt
 
Timid Theresa has done it again:

Was scheduled to appear on Women's hour on Radio 4 tomorrow morning (other party leaders have done so this week - probably heard about Corbyn's Interview earlier in the week due to overblown coverage) but has declined.
Justine Greening is the new Amber Rudd and will go in her place.

This is pathetic.
 
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AL. said:
Timid Theresa has done it again:

Was scheduled to appear on Women's hour on Radio 4 tomorrow morning (other party leaders have done so this week - probably heard about Corbyn's Interview earlier in the week due to overblown coverage) but has declined.
Justine Greening is the new Amber Rudd and will go in her place.

This is pathetic.
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Shh, she's busy thinking about Brexit.
Thought women could multitask. :bandit:
 
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AL. said:
Timid Theresa has done it again:

Was scheduled to appear on Women's hour on Radio 4 tomorrow morning (other party leaders have done so this week - probably heard about Corbyn's Interview earlier in the week due to overblown coverage) but has declined.
Justine Greening is the new Amber Rudd and will go in her place.

This is pathetic.
Click to expand...

It's odd isn't it. I would've thought this was her chance to nail Corbyn after his road crash t'other day, what is she scared of?

I even think the BBC are ''pro her going by the coverage so far, most bizzare she won't do it.
 
It is fascinating concerning the Brexit issue as it should really be Theresa May's Achilles heel. I am glad that Labour have woken up to the fact that she actually campaigned to remain in the EU quite vociferously and surely more should be made of the fact that she has changed her tune? How can you trust her to make a good deal if she doesn't believe in it herself? I would have respected her had she been a politician of conviction and stuck to her guns but this is not the case. Small wonder that she is being described as weak and wobbly,

Early in the campaign, it was suggested that Jeremy Corbyn was weak. This is clearly not the case. He was elected leader of his party against the odds and survived a coup against him within a year. He has been an outsider in politics for the best part of 30 years and if this has not toughened him up, I am not sure what else has. I would also suggest that the Left are traditionally intransigent and I cannot believe for one minute that he would not do a deal with Europe that would not be the best interests of the people. Given his political history, I would have thought there would have been few better placed to stick to his guns and get the best deal possible.
 
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