Off Topic Politics Thread

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100% true this. There is of labelling and things like tory scum don't help. The other thing is, a large element of tory supporters will be voting with their best interest at heart and really does anyone want to be sharing that they are selfish to the world in full view. Maybe on anonymous board or with their close friends and family but definitely not on social media.

Even poor imps here has taken flack over remain/brexit, tory v labour and i would like to think most here are not as militant or think everything is you or us

I'm quite happy to soak it all up for my fellow "righties." Sometimes I get a bit angry and throw my toys but I get over it eventually. I think a lot of the posts on here are actually "prods" to see if I'll bite and while many might not believe me I often refrain from biting on all of them.
 
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Because most right centre or right wing people prefer to keep their opinions to themselves rather than have an argument over their voting intention. Whereas most left centre or left wing people don't suffer the same response.

Hence why violent "left wing" groups get a free pass and virtually no reporting whereas non violent right wing groups like EDL will be headline toppers despite no violence on their side and all the arrests being from the "anti" lot.

When it is fine to shout Tory scum yet the left wing are immune from criticism then you will not get the same numbers airing their views.

The whole of the internet shows this. You would think 90% of voters were left wing if you gauged opinion on the internet. Or you would get the impression that right wing people don't use the internet. The reality is that most right wing people on the internet just can't be bothered having the same old argument and getting the same aggressive response whereas the left wing posters post away because they don't receive the same response because of the above.

Polling day will tell. YouGov will have overestimated the left wing support again and they will never get to grips with the "shy" right wing vote because there are more and more "shy" voters as the days and months progress due to the increasing vitriol from the left.

YouGov had Ed Milliband closing the gap and towards polling day Milliband was neck and neck with Cameron with YouGov still thinking it was going to be a coalition by a margin with The Labour not being too far behind Cameron in terms of seats. The reality of course was a difference of 99 seats.

This is YouGov's opinion 6th May 2015 in the Guardian:
Now, with only a few days remaining, Ed Miliband and David Cameron are still squaring up against one another and although a knockout blow now looks virtually impossible, there are still points to be won and the result remains very uncertain.

Miliband has adopted an aggressive, confrontational stance by ruling out any kind of coalition or deal or agreement or whatever with the SNP. This will, one imagines, result in him being left well short of a majority and having to go all Michael Corleone – offering the SNP nothing, but hoping they blink first and fall in line as their opposition to the alternative is too great.

However, David Cameron may keep fighting and refuse to give in. Crucially, he will need to, as I expect, win slightly more votes and a few more seats than Labour, but also convince the remaining Lib Dems to enter into a formal coalition agreement. No easy task, but by no means impossible.

If he succeeds, we could be left with both Con/LibDem and Lab/SNP blocs close in terms of seats although still short of the 326 (or even 323) needed for a majority, but with the Conservatives able to claim a points victory by virtue of being the single party having more votes and seats.


All the pollsters went for a neck and neck hung parliament or Ed Milliband for PM. NONE predicted Cameron except "Populus" who were working 3 days a week for the Conservatives at the time.

Michelle Harrison, global head of public affairs at TNS: ‘Stalemate; Miliband has the numbers, but public opinion will decide’

Survation's opinion from their polling in May 2015, how far out is this one? And that is with Labour ahead in the polls not just neck and neck!!!:
Our new ballot paper-prompted voting question, which we believe will produce results closer to the actual results tomorrow, currently shows:

CON 31.0% LAB 32.3% LD 10.1% UKIP 15.2% GRE 5.4% SNP 3.9% Others 1.8%.

This would indicate a seat picture of:

CON 270-280 LAB 270-275 SNP 45 LD 30 UKIP 6 GRE 1 RES 1.

Ed Miliband would then, on this basis be our most likely next prime minister, and LAB could be closer to the Conservatives in both votes and seats than is the current expectation – lending some “legitimacy” to the formation of a Labour minority government.


These pollsters will never be able to work out the shy vote because they don't understand of realise how much vitriol there is that is pushing people to be "shy." That vitriol is increasing and thus the "shy" vote will increase with it.
the big difference between then and now is that May has no personality and won't be swaying anybody her way. I agree all the shy voters will still vote for her (including my mum and dad)
 
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I heard someone today suggest that people may be trying to "game" the polls, saying they'll vote for Corbyn in an attempt to scare Theresa May so she doesn't take the whole thing for granted. Doesn't sound very likely to me but who knows?
 
I'm sorry, but when these pollsters conduct their surveys I presume it's not in front of a large crowd of left wing militants shouting "Tory scum". Surely it is just between the asker and the replier in confidence isn't it?

Doesn't stop people from saying "don't know."
 
He should have easily got a majority in 2010 but went all Blairite and squandered the easy open goal against Brown. The majority in 2015 was small but against Milliband who was blatantly trying to pretend he wasn't Blairite.

May's stance on Brexit I like. Once Brexit is done I would like to see someone new come through and take her place. Like I said my favourite Tory at the moment other than Jacob Rees-Mogg is Kwasi Kwarteng. There is a reason I think why he hasn't been given a top job. He sails through interviews and interrogations and the powers that be in politicial parties prefer to surround the top team with "on message" policy repeaters and not give a leg up to those that might challenge them.
May's "stance" is the problem,she doesn't stick to it. She is weak.
 
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I'm quite happy to soak it all up for my fellow "righties." Sometimes I get a bit angry and throw my toys but I get over it eventually. I think a lot of the posts on here are actually "prods" to see if I'll bite and while many might not believe me I often refrain from biting on all of them.

You are always willing to justify your beliefs and argue your corner. I respect that.

You do go on a bit though. Learn from the pros Imps - give your audience a handy soundbite now and then (not "strong and stable" - I think we've all had enough of that one. Howabout something like, "For the many not the few"?)
 
I am completely impartial on the individuals (unless they are real nutJobs) and my post was not about if he is right or not to lead the country. I always (usually) keep my political views to myself.

I purely raised the question of why some people get bashed for a mistake (as I said the other day before this) and for others it's excusable, understandable.

Just my thoughts, but I think people are defensive towards Corbyn's errors because they know that 80% of the media will be crucifying him for them.
Corbyn and Abbott etc have made schoolboy errors that have enabled the press to attack the messenger, and direct attention away from the messages, which in most cases have been very good, vote winning policies, which has helped the Tories.
Equally, not so many will step in a defend May, because the same 80% of the media will do it anyway, with the way they present/misrepresent any gaffes.
 
no ****ing idea where the pollsters come from. Is it those pop ups when you are reading online articles or is it face to face? If face to face i can imagine you may not want to be truthful.

I've never been asked!

Mostly done by telephone I believe.

And all the parties collate responses on the doorstep, which gives them some insight into how they are doing locally.
 
The biggest problem I have with the Tories is austerity. I have seen people get totally destroyed by it. I have seen a mum have to eat a slice a toast a day so she could feed and buy school clothes for her child. I have talked to sick and disabled people that feel like they are being treated like animals. A guy even committed suicide because his benefits were stopped, this was is a guy who couldn't use his legs.

Austerity is the biggest thing that pisses me off. It's disgusting how human beings are being treated. I don't know how any one can be ok with it.
 
Just my thoughts, but I think people are defensive towards Corbyn's errors because they know that 80% of the media will be crucifying him for them.
Corbyn and Abbott etc have made schoolboy errors that have enabled the press to attack the messenger, and direct attention away from the messages, which in most cases have been very good, vote winning policies, which has helped the Tories.
Equally, not so many will step in a defend May, because the same 80% of the media will do it anyway, with the way they present/misrepresent any gaffes.

To be fair i don't think Corbyn has said anything bad. Maybe been forgetful or not timed things right.

Everyone knows May is a liar and is looking more stupid by the minute and looking super weak.

Abbott on the other hand i don't think you can defend. She sounds dumb, acts pretty dumb and as far as i am concerned is a total idiot. It's a surprise shes even shadow cabinet at all and if theres a black mark on Corbyn is that it looks like theres nepotism to her being in the cabinet rather than on merit
 
The biggest problem I have with the Tories is austerity. I have seen people get totally destroyed by it. I have seen a mum have to eat a slice a toast a day so she could feed and buy school clothes for her child. I have talked to sick and disabled people that feel like they are being treated like animals. A guy even committed suicide because his benefits were stopped, this was is a guy who couldn't use his legs.

Austerity is the biggest thing that pisses me off. It's disgusting how human beings are being treated. I don't know how any one can be ok with it.

It's those "selfish" people that BobbyD referred to......
 
You are always willing to justify your beliefs and argue your corner. I respect that.

You do go on a bit though. Learn from the pros Imps - give your audience a handy soundbite now and then (not "strong and stable" - I think we've all had enough of that one. Howabout something like, "For the many not the few"?)

This thread wouldn't be half as interesting without Imps' input.....
 
May is now taking questions from the media.

Q: [From Sky’s Faisal Islam] If you are so strong, and Jeremy Corbyn is so weak, why won’t you debate him tonight?

May laughs. She says Corbyn seems keen to be on TV a lot. She says she is more worried about preparing for the Brexit talks.

Q: Don’t you think public scrutiny is important?

May says she thinks it is. That is why she is taking questions from voters during the campaign.

She says she feels sorry for ITV. Corbyn snubbed their debate.

She says debates where politicians are squabbling amongst themselves do not do anything for voters.

Q: The YouGov model suggest you will lose seats. Will you resign if that happens?

May says there is only one poll that matters, the vote on 8 June.

Q: Isn’t the truth about why you are missing the debate is that you think people will not like you?

No, says May.

She says she has set out what an election campaign should be about. It should be about going out and meeting voters.

Q: This morning you were in a seat the Conservatives are defending, and you are in one now. Have you given up trying to gain seats?

May says yesterday she was in seats the Tories hope to win. You have to visit both, she says.


Another thing I hate about May is she always has to attack Corbyn. I haven't heard Corbyn attack her yet. I hate politicians that do that ****.
 
This thread wouldn't be half as interesting without Imps' input.....

Absolutely, i find Imps stuff pretty insightful and agree with it a lot more.

I'm a closet conservative. I don't think people should live on benefits though but at the same time i think people should be helped if they need it.

I don't like people sponging off the state. I can acknowledge that Daily Mail is a rag of a newspaper and is out to stereotype the poor.

I don't think rich people should be overly taxed but i agree the super rich are getting away without paying what they should as this world has gone global.

I'm not totally against austerity as long as it's done correct (there should be affordable living for everyone and food at the minimum).

I used to think that poor people shouldn't be spending their money on luxuries if they couldn't afford them (how i've always lived my life) but i've softened on that stance as actually everyone deserves a break every now and again.

I can also see that there's no point to this tory austerity as they have made it super easy for the super rich to get richer and its just hurting the poor so may as well give it to the poor.

Lastly, politics threads across all boards have been quite insightful. I have certainly learnt a lot more than i thought i would (taking a view from everyone and double checking some of it) and i have become more left as a result.

I hope Corbyn wins even if it means i have to pay more tax. Not necessarily because i agree with all his policies but because he is an honest politician, the media are against him because they are dominated by the capitalists and i do not want negative politics to be the winner of this. I actually like that the labour campaign is campaigning on their policies and have not really descended into personality politics and attacking the opponent. I would like to leave that to america
 
Absolutely, i find Imps stuff pretty insightful and agree with it a lot more.

I'm a closet conservative. I don't think people should live on benefits though but at the same time i think people should be helped if they need it.

I don't like people sponging off the state. I can acknowledge that Daily Mail is a rag of a newspaper and is out to stereotype the poor.

I don't think rich people should be overly taxed but i agree the super rich are getting away without paying what they should as this world has gone global.

I'm not totally against austerity as long as it's done correct (there should be affordable living for everyone and food at the minimum).

I used to think that poor people shouldn't be spending their money on luxuries if they couldn't afford them (how i've always lived my life) but i've softened on that stance as actually everyone deserves a break every now and again.

I can also see that there's no point to this tory austerity as they have made it super easy for the super rich to get richer and its just hurting the poor so may as well give it to the poor.

Lastly, politics threads across all boards have been quite insightful. I have certainly learnt a lot more than i thought i would (taking a view from everyone and double checking some of it) and i have become more left as a result.

I hope Corbyn wins even if it means i have to pay more tax. Not necessarily because i agree with all his policies but because he is an honest politician, the media are against him because they are dominated by the capitalists and i do not want negative politics to be the winner of this. I actually like that the labour campaign is campaigning on their policies and have not really descended into personality politics and attacking the opponent. I would like to leave that to america
I'm a closet conservative. I don't think people should live on benefits though but at the same time i think people should be helped if they need it.

This point sadly will always happen. More people in work claim benefits then out of it. Until employers are made to pay a decent wage, the government will always have to top up peoples pay.
 
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The biggest problem I have with the Tories is austerity. I have seen people get totally destroyed by it. I have seen a mum have to eat a slice a toast a day so she could feed and buy school clothes for her child. I have talked to sick and disabled people that feel like they are being treated like animals. A guy even committed suicide because his benefits were stopped, this was is a guy who couldn't use his legs.

Austerity is the biggest thing that pisses me off. It's disgusting how human beings are being treated. I don't know how any one can be ok with it.

I was behind a woman, yesterday, at a supermarket checkout.
I am not a patient shopper at the best of times, so started to become annoyed at being kept waiting, as she started taking stuff out of her bag and returning them to the cashier, as she had overspent.
My annoyance quickly changed to a sense of shame, at myself, because I didn't know her circumstances, and she only had £20.
I wish I had offered to pay the difference, but didn't know if that would have offended her, so kept out of it.
There but for the grace of God, as the saying goes.
 
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Actually I don't think this will make much difference to the world's efforts to save the planet. He promised his supporters he would support their coal and oil industries and good luck to them. As every year passes non-polluting methods of generating power become more efficient and fossil fuels become less efficient. Didn't the UK last week manage 24%? Pollution will reduce without Donald Trump. His investing in fossil fuels is at most short sighted and will actually be an economic disaster for the States. His quest for popularity will be short lived.